Originally Posted By: afsaneh77
Originally Posted By: Frank_Nitti
I guess I just can't support the arguer that says, "you as a society couldn't/shouldn't prevent me from having unprotected pre marital sex, and guess what, when/if I get pregnant or sick, you society may have to foot the bill."

But if we society are required to fund their little bundle of subjective morality, then we have every right to try and systemically solve the problem through morality based education, no matter how 'subjective' those morals are, which I consider to be instinctual modes of preservation and survival more than anything else.

Of course, it starts in the home, and most parents today are perfectly willing to let their children objectify themselves in the social meat market without any regard for the long-term systemic sociological problems it can yield.



Good luck with that. Come, take a look at today's Iran. After three decades of shoving morals down people's throats, this is the condition under which we're living. Hejab was required to fight objectifying women, yet I'm sure 60% women including myself hate it. Some women casually throw something over their head, while they've dressed to go to some bridal party or something, no matter if they're going to work, shopping or anything else. I've heard women saying they feel naked if they didn't use insane amount of make up. That's what you get by forced morals, making abortion illegal and frowning upon premarital sex. Bunch of people keeping the face, doing what they want and then lying to each other about it.

And then you could see a society like Sweden, where a woman can get an abortion easier and safer than anywhere else in the world. At the same time the society would provide for the same woman if she chooses to have the baby. I don't see their society fall into pieces because of that.

I think many of these teen pregnancies in the US is exactly because parents get their panties in the bunch if their kids are taught safe sex, because they think their kids shouldn't have sex to begin with. That's not going to happen. People have sex. We're bunch of animals trying to make it as a society. To fight sex and reproduction outside marriage is more destructive than productive. I think these old laws were good when there was no DNA tests and paternal responsibilities could not be maintained if the couple were not married or if they didn't know who the father was. In this day and age, I think we could get past that.


Firstly, this is also a socioeconomic issue. Fact is, birthrates are way higher among poorer regions of the world. In the UK, around half of all pregnancies to under 18s are concentrated among the 30% most deprived population, with only 14% occurring among the 30% least deprived. The numbers of course would be exponentially higher among less developed nations. So instead of just conceding to let this issue spin out of control like you seem to think we should do and let our animalistic instincts prevail (as if we haven't already risen above this level) we can try raising the socioeconomic status of these people as well as education and moral accountability.

And to say that education does not mitigate the problem (atleast in America) is to ignore the fact that the birth rate of black women, which was historically has been exponentially higher than white women in all societies of the world, has dropped considerably over the last decades, and in recent years is approaching and almost equal to the lower birth rates of white women today. Birth control plays a role in this as well, but as the statistics I present below will show, birth control and abortion have not curbed birth rates in America but the false sense of security they create has increased them.

Secondly, Sweden has a population of about 9 million people compared to 313 million in the United States. You're comparing apples and oranges here when you compare us with your nation or those in Northern Europe. In America, the American Indian/Alaska Native, Hispanic, and non-Hispanic black teen pregnancy rates are more than double the non-Hispanic white teen birth rate. 91 percent of births to black teenagers were out of wedlock, compared with a much lower 53 percent of white ones

These people don't need any encouragement to have more sex. The teenage birth rate in United States was 53 births per 1,000 women aged 15–19 in 2002; by far the highest in the industrial world. In Sweden it was 7 births per 1,000 women ages 15-19.

It's projected that 82% of the increase in population from 2005 to 2050 in the United States will be due to immigrants and their children. Let's not encourage this.

Thirdly, we've already had a sexual revolution at various times throughout history. Since 1965, the proportion of births out of wedlock to white teenagers increased sharply from 7 percent to 67 percent. Since 1965, the proportion of black teenage births that were out of wedlock increased from 51 percent to 95 percent in 1994.
Although the total number of births to teenagers declined between 1970 and 1992, the proportion born out of wedlock more than doubled (from 29 percent to 70 percent).

These statistics show that abortion and birth control can have the reverse effects of their intent. Moreover, many teenagers report that they were using a contraceptive at the time they got pregnant but that it failed. Contraceptive failure rates within the first year of use are higher for teenagers, particularly poor ones, than among "typical users" in the general population. Twelve percent of typical users experience a condom failure in their first year of use.

Lastly, to suggest open sex is somehow healthy and natural denies the studies and is just sad. For younger teenagers, too-early sexual experiences can be emotionally distressing and inconsistent with healthy development. For disadvantaged teens of all ages, sex too often leads to an out-of-wedlock birth and long-term welfare dependency. The statistics support this. Among young teenagers sex is also associated with other risk-taking behaviors such as smoking, drinking, and using drugs. The YRBS found, for example, that the proportion of 14- and 15-year-olds who had had sex was 87 percent among those who smoked marijuana regularly, compared with 36 percent of those who never did so.

And the costs that society has incurred due to unprotected sex in the post roe v wade world is frightening. In 1992, for example, there were about 1 million pregnancies, resulting in over 300,000 abortions, 134,000 miscarriages, and 500,000 live births. Of the births, 70 percent were out of wedlock. And about 3 million teenagers suffered from a sexually transmitted disease such as chlamydia, syphilis, gonorrhea, herpes, and even AIDS. These numbers promise to only be much higher today and in the future.

And not to be just a total Debbie Downer, but of the estimated 150,000 abortions that occurred annually in the US during the early 20th century, one in six resulted in the woman's death.