Been reading the board for a while, finally signed up. This site is an amazing resource.

I just read the Kuklinski book (the book on tape is on youtube if anyone cares). Some of the claims are absurd ie: the Galante murder, castellano, hoffa etc. But my question is what was the extent of his involvement with Demeo and Gravano? In the book there are a lot of detailed accounts of times spent with Roy and Gravano. It makes sense that Gravano wouldnt mention him considering he supposedly hired Kuklinski to kill a cop. Is there any evidence not coming from Philip Carlo or kulinski that the Iceman had any involvement with demeo, gravano or the mafia in general?? I am beginning to think that the Iceman killed only the 5 people he is convicted of killing and the rest is utter BS. I just can't believe that an author could write a non fiction book without verifying anything. I mean there has to be some evidence somewhere right?

Kuklinski is a lot like henry hill he mixes fact with fiction. Now im not disputing thet he was a killer but he claims to have killed anyone from jimmy hoffa to carmine galante to roy demeo himself. Now I do believe him taht he worked with Demeo is some capacity but i dont belive at all that he was roy's top hitman or that he killed roy. We all know that The Gemini twins killed roy that is pretty clear so richard lied about that.

hes a total bullshitter

Kuklinski was full of shit. Don't remember where I read this, but wasn't it so that the FBI, while keeping surveillance on the Gemini Lounge, only saw him visit there once?

Yeah I guess it's bs. That means that 99.9 percent of the book is untrue. It just amazes me that someone can publish a non fiction book without verifying any of it. And now they are making a movie out of it with Michael Shannon, wynonna rider, and ray liotta. Based on a true story, what a joke.

Didn't he even try to claim he had something to do with Castellano hit? Think I read that somewhere, LMAO.

I do think he would have probably met DeMeo once, but worked with him? Don't think so.

yep, i think he tried taking credit for the killing of john favaro as well, i think he said gotti hired him to do it.

he bought a .22 pistol at the gemini lounge. he was only seen there once and could have been bought from a number of criminals thats hung there.

Phat's right. Kuklinski is a self aggrandising liar. There's no corroborating sources beyond those based on his own claims.

I mean, he killed a bunch of folk and had some very tenuous connections. Thats about it. If you hit the archives and run a search on him, there's some great threads.

What a liar, sometimes he say "I killed around 100 people" other time "I killed probably over 200"...

Even DeMeo is idolized in hell by Kuklinski

I blame Carlo for printing all Kuklinski's BS more than Kuklinski himself.

In the book it says that pat Kane, the cop that investigated kuklisky for years, tied him to Roy demo because of information received from Freddie dimone. I wonder if that is documented somewhere or if Carlo just made it up

i do too but i will say this the ice man interviews that were on HBO were some great bone chilling stuff...even if he was lying i think he believed it and def delivered with the interviews.

Kuklinsky's documentary on HBO

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Tv4c3flhSaU

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=007UO2aOm-U

My take is that he either bought guns or porn from the Gemini and years later when he was locked up in jail with nothing to do and the truth about the DeMeo crew came out - I think he (Kuklinski) decided to have a little fun.
I bet the Gemini twins had a laugh or two if they ever managed to see his interview or read the book!

I think their connection is a little bit stronger than just one gun purchase. In the documentary "confessions of a mafia hitman" there is a reprsentative from the NJ Organized Crime Task Force who talks about his connection with Demeo(there is even some home footage of Demeo). Also he agreed to plead guilty to and received a life sentence for the murder of Peter Calabro, a bad cop who gave information to the Gambinos. This murder was orderd by Gravano. I find Kuklinski believable in this specif documentary (the later one where he says he killed 200 people is absurd). He talks about all the murders he was convicted of, he talks about killing a random person because Demeo asked him too, and he even talks about Demeos murder. He just says Demeo outlived his usefullness and people thought he was going to run to the cops but doesnt say he murdered Demeo. He says he didnt really care the Demeo was killed and it "couldnt have happened to a better guy" (thick sarcasm). I don't think he was involved in the murders of Hoffa, Galante, Billoti,Favra or Demeo as the book says. And I think a lot of the murders detailed in the book are complete fiction. But after doing some research I do think Kuklinski filled a few contracts with Gravano and Demeo. Not saying he was a part of the crew, or even an important hitman, just that he did a few jobs they didn't want to do, like the killing of a cop (Peter Calabro)

one more thing. The documentary posted above isnt the one where he speaks specificly about Demeo. There are 3 differnt HBO specials

here is the one where he talks about Demeo specifically.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xopaCQB4XM0

he starts talking about his relationship with Demeo at 5:40 and it goes into part 2 and 3
here is part 2. pretty interesting

http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=endscreen&NR=1&v=kqPujBv51eU

The home footage of demeo and demeos murder is discussed very early in part 4

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4VDrD6R9MpI&feature=relmfu

stick around and do some more research
you'll soon pick up tid bits and you will be able to form a better opinion than just one documentary.

Fair enough. I do think that particular documentary is more credible than the other two since he speaks in specific terms (in the other two he talks a lot about kill ramdon people and not specifically about contracts) and there is a representative from an Organized Crime task force corraborating. I'll see if I can find some other sources.

'The Iceman' was one of the worst books I have ever had the displeasure of purchasing. Like previously noted Richard Kuklinski claimed to have conspired, if not taken part in every controversial mob hit since Albert Anastasia and Jimmy Hoffa.

Although as Ivy has pointed out, I don't believe all the blame should be placed onto Kuklinski. This guy was narcissistic mercenary who believed his own fictitious ideologies. Perhaps he knew he could suck journalists and criminologists into buying his stories and keeping people entertained and intrigued. I understand Kuklinski also referenced in a HBO interview that he would read into various ways of killing people and often visualized them as a reality.

In hindsight, Philip Carlo should have done his research before publishing this book. Carlo should have also researched Kuklinski's posturing claims of his alleged ties to the DeMeo crew, which can be easily proved untrue as none of the DeMeo informants claimed having any knowledge or relationship with Kuklinski.

This book was a complete write off and it shows very halfhearted journalism by Carlo and his team of editors and publishers.

i agree with you 100%

Who was he actually connected to? Who was he doing all this killing for? My fav is when is says the guy owed him money and he ran into the guy. Said the guy had him come with him to eat and party and tried to drop him off at his car at the end of the night without paying him, so he shoots him. Gets in the guys pocket and he has a wad of money, pulls out wehat the guy owes him and puts the rest back. Put in my mind had two huge mistakes 1) when the dead guy is found and still has a wad of money in his pocket the police establish there was something personal involved when you get shot in the head from inside of your car(no holes in windows) and 2) you just left a wad of fucking money in a guys pocket after you fucking killed him, he dont fucking need it! Hell it probably aint true anyway.

remember he was only convicted of 4 murders. he ran a small time home invasion crew and did deal in porn to an extent. mostly buying from a connection of a connection of the gambinos. i mean don't get me wrong he was a killer and did some killings. i do believe that he had anything to do with Callabro? no. why would sammy the bull hire a hitman outside the family esp when sammy was already an accomplished hitman himself. when the govt asked him to testify about gravano all he did was try to extort the govt for money. all the other shit he claims is just ludacris. galante castealano all that crazy shit he claims fugetaboutit

Still looking forward to seeing a film about him though, fictitious or not.

It would make a GREAT movie, but IMO not a Scorsese type of film. I'm thinking more along the lines of a Guy Ritchie.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TDPtT1NYWYM



not sure what this trailer is, but looks promising.

Looks like Ray Liotta is playing Roy Demeo...

Also wynona ryder and james franco are in it, looks even more promising now...

http://www.imdb.com/title/tt1491044/