Why did Vito choose Tom to replace Genco as Consigliere? I mean he did do a good job, but he wasn't Italian. Not only that, but was he qualified, in Mafia terms? What had Tom done to earn the title of Consigliere--to be the Don's number two or number three man? Why didn't Vito appoint Tessio--who seemed to be very smart and savvy and was one of Vito's oldest associates--Consigliere?

Would seem to me to have been the smarter, and more respected move--Would please Tessio, and also be a respected move. Tom could've been an Unofficial Consigliere, the way Hesh Rabkin was to Tony Soprano--an Advisor who just doesn't have the title. Surely Vito could've just appointed someone else as Capo of Tessio's regime?

I think that Vito believed that Tom's intelligence combined with Sonny's forcefulness would make a formidable Don. That problem solved, Michael would then be free to head up the Family's legitimate interests. If things had gone as Vito had hoped, he might have had 15 or 20 years to teach Sonny and Tom everything they needed to know.

That would have been a good book/movie as well buddy!

I think it had more to do with choices and loyalty. Tom was family (more or less) with the utmost loyalty. Genco was pretty close to family (I seem to recall something stating that Genco's father and Vito's father were very close friends back in Sicily and that's why Vito went to stay with them).

Also, Tessio's crew was made to appear to be it's own family, not related to the Corleones, so it might have been very hard to replace Tessio as caporegime; also the point of separating Tessio and Clemenza was to prevent them from conspiring against Vito - if Tessio was the consiglieri he would have constant and direct contact with Clemenza and they could have plotted together, so I feel it was in Vito's best interest to NOT have Tessio as the consiglieri. Even if he was slighted I'm sure Vito explained it to him (Tessio understood why Vito didn't want him to associate with Clemenza most of the time) and in return Vito gave Tessio more control over his men than Clemenza had.

Clemenza wasn't as intelligent as Tessio was. Michael was supposed to be the legitimate businessman. Sonny was too hot-tempered to be consiglieri. Fredo was too stupid (not "smaht") and didn't have the force of character.

Basically, Vito didn't seem to have a choice. It was Tom or nothing.

That's the long and the short of it.

For reasons of his own (probably protection against a subordinate turning rat), Vito had only two caporegimes. No one else got close to him except Tom, and all orders came through Tom. And, as the novel tells us, he kept Tessio on a long leash, far from the Mall (where Clemenza lived), partly to keep the two from conspiring against him. Naming Tessio consigliere probably would have gone down badly with Clemenza--he needed both of them, just where they were in the family.

I think Vito knew that Tom, as a non-Sicilian, lacked certain important attributes that Genco, as a Sicilian, brought to the position. But I think his long-term goal was for the family to be "legitimate." Tom was a lawyer--"legitimate." More important, since Sonny was the heir-apparent, Vito believed that Tom could rein in Sonny's hot-headedness.

Obviously, succession-planning was not Vito's long suit.

Well, there's noone in the novel (or film) other than Tom that Puzo or FFC presented as having much of an opportunity to be considered by Vito to fill that vital post. While Tessio did have some consigliere characteristics, Tom was family who came with the indigenous loyalty that comes from being raised in a father's household. While legal education and training is not a consigliere requirement, it wouldn't hurt. Also, it fit in with Vito's plans for the future of the family.

For all the accolades Genco gets, there's little in the movie or book to indicate that he really was a true consigliere, i.e. counselor, to Vito. We never see Vito lean on Genco for advice and Vito doesn't seem to be the type to discuss strategy. I think Vito - like Michael - was really his own consigliere.

As Oli notes above, Vito's plans for the future make the selection of Tom understandable. First of all, his overly conciliatory nature would have been a nice counterweight to Sonny's temper. And his legal background and veneer of legitimacy (and fair skin/hair) would have helped the Family present a more "mainstream" face as they (and the Italian immingrant communit in general) assimilated to American culture.

The story really begins when Genco dies. And with a few exceptopns the flashbacks in the novel and in GF2 are about the time before Vito becomes the big Don.
We can only assume that Genco was a great consigliere by the way he's referred to, like in Sonny's outburst: "Pop had Genco - look what I got." Just because we don't see strategic discussions between Genco and Vito doesn't mean they didn't happen.
We see Vito interacting with Tom even more often than with Michael. They discuss the Sollozzo business - before, during and after the wedding. And Vito seems to be really interested in Tom's opinion. And obviously Vito needs Tom to arrange the meeting of the crime families which must have been a very difficult thing to do.

Even though the novel doesn't explicitly state Genco's skills as consiglieri, the fact he was at Vito's side through at least two wars (versus Maranzano to establish power and during the time when the Irish guys shot Vito, when Sonny made his bones), possibly a third (the war with the sixth unnamed family whose Don Luca killed and subsequently sued for peace) and countless other instances that we aren't made aware of (favors for people, establishing and running the rackets) should say something to his skills since when we are introduced to the Corleone family, they're the most powerful crime family in New York. Clearly at the least Genco was better than the consiglieri's of the other families ;-)

Wayne and Danito:

You both make valid points. Obviously, I'm making some large assumptions about Vito and Genco's relationship. Since their relationship is largely off-screen, that's all we can do.

But based on what we do see - of Vito and of Genco - I don't think my position is without merit.

Nothing in the interactions Vito has with Genco in GFII indicate that Genco is some sort of mastermind, or even a savvy, street-wise operator. We see him cower before Don Fanucci. We see him open and close a door for Signor Roberto.

To me, Genco seems well-informed but somewhat passive. I think Vito utilized as his eyes and ears on the street, feeding information to Vito, who then decided to use it. I think Vito kept his own counsel and didn't seek advice from Genco. I don't think Vito felt he needed an consigliere to do that.

Michael tellingly uses the phrase, "If I ever need a consigliere..." I think that attitude comes from Vito, who knew his strategic mind was better than anyone else's. Remember, the one time we see him ask for advice (regarding drugs) he totally disregards the answers of his son and consigliere.

Aside from the well taken positions that Tom would act as a counterweight to Sonny, it is important to remember that the Corleones' main asset was political and judicial protection which allowed them to control labor unions and gambling. They
didn't have a lot to do with prostitution...that was Tattaglia's big deal, and Vito wanted to stay out of the drug rackets.

Tom, a lawyer, would be the obvious go-between with the politicians and judges.

Additionally his loyalty to Vito was unquestioned.

Finally, I think Vito really loved Tom as a true son, more so than Michael or Sonny did.

These are scenes before Vito became a mafia boss. Remember, Genco and Vito started with the grocery store which Genco's father had owned.
Michael tell's Kay that a consigliere is a very important person. He must have observed this from Genco. When Sonny joins the "family business", it's Genco who teaches him what to do (understanding that Vito wants Sonny to be the next Don.)
When Sonny's shot, Tom faces his own weaknesses:

Tom's most important role for Vito was to provide him with judicial/legal advise, something that Genco wasn't able to. Tom was a very capable lawyer and therefore an asset to the Corleones.

I think Genco's role as consigliere was symbolical. I think Vito invented that position for him because of their friendship and because Genco wasn't fit for the muscle-end of the family.

I've never felt that the passage you cite makes much sense. The point was not that Sonny was given bad advice, but that he had too much of a temper to listen to anyone's advice.
Whatever Genco may have told him would have flown out the window in the heat of Sonny's anger.

And while the passage does point out a difference between Genco and Tom, I hardly see that anticipating that your enemy will eventaually attack you is some sort of uniquely Sicilian insight. Tom's failure to expect an attack says more against him than for Genco.

I do not think it is fair to interpret or draw conclusions from the film by passsages in the novel.

Yes, the film stands on its own.
But here we are speculating about Gencos role as consigliere. And the film doesn't show us Genco as consigliere. So we have to take indirect references from the film or direct references from the novel.

I look at it as Tom is the one all orders are given down to the capos by, so if shit hits the fan Tom is the one it comes back to before it gets to Vito/Michael/Sonny/Fredo. He is the last person who would have to flip to put the heads of the Corleone family in jail for life. I think Vito made a good choice from this perspective as Tom would never rat.

Tom was one thing Sonny wasn't nor was ever inclined to be: Diplomatic, which comes natural from his lawyer background.

I'm new to this forum and haven't read anything that cites Mark Winegardner's 2004 novel "The Godfather Returns", which fills in spaces in the Corleone family's timeline.

In this book, it is revealed that Don Michael, with his father Vito as consigliere, had envisioned a plan in which Tom Hagen would make an unsuccessful run at a Senate seat which would, in turn, legitimize a state cabinet appointment. This would then lead to an easy run for governor of Nevada for Hagen.

That's because Winegardner's books are practically persona non grata on this website.

[/quote]

That's because Winegardner's books are practically persona non grata on this website. [/quote]

Fair enough. I'll not allude to that work again.

That's because Winegardner's books are practically persona non grata on this website. [/quote]

Fair enough. I'll not allude to that work again. [/quote]

Your free to refer to that work if you want, I was simply giving you a possible reason why nobody's referred to it before.

Fair enough. I'll not allude to that work again. [/quote]

Your free to refer to that work if you want, I was simply giving you a possible reason why nobody's referred to it before. [/quote]

Oh, I thought you meant that this forum didn't recognize anything but Puzo's work as legitimate to the Corleone's story, which I would have respected.

That's basically accurate. Winegardner's works are not considered canon here.

They are generally ignored by the posters, and arguments based on them will not hold much sway here.

Enough Winegardner already!!


Another reasn for "Why Tom?" is an Occam's Razor thing. It was the easiest choice. In fact the only choice. With Genco dead, and Clemenza and Tessio running operations, the Don had no other choice. Sonny was the heir aparent, Michael didn't want in tht family business, and Luca probably wasn't consigliere material. That left Tom.

In the novel it is mentioned that Vito insisted that Tom studies law. So it had been a plan from Vito that Tom will be a consigliere, either to him or to Sonny.

Actually, law school was Tom's choice after hearing Vito state that lawyers can steal more than gunmen. Vito's insistence was that Tom put in 3 years of law practice.

Another reason for Tom as consigliere: Vito envisioned his family gradually going "legit," and Tom, a lawyer and uninvolved in the muscle end of the business, was a better front than someone who came up from the ranks. Michael later wanted Tom uninvolved in The Great Massacre of 1955 because he needed Tom's legit front to pave the way for his Nevada move.

I think Tom was also helpful to Vito because, given the general prejudice against Italians, politicians (mostly Irish in NYC at that time) felt more comfortable with Tom.

I agree for the most part. But I think Vito wanted Tom out of the way of the Great Massacre of 1951 because Vito had made the peace in which Tom was directly involved.

I wouldn't say that succession planning was Vito's weak point. I would say his reproduction skills were. He had one kid with a hugely hot temper, another who was a wimp-weasel, and the only kid fit to be Don was ear-marked for legitimacy.