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Re: The Family Corleone [Re: RichCerto] #650076
06/05/12 11:19 AM
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This has to be the funniest thread on the forum


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Re: The Family Corleone [Re: DonRobertoCorleone] #650095
06/05/12 02:02 PM
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Originally Posted By: DonRobertoCorleone
Just finished the book. It's a whole lot better than Winegardner's books thats for sure. I would hope Falco will now be the one to attempt a book on the end of the Corleone Saga (Vincent as head of the family)


****Spolier alert****

One criticism though: I was always under the impression that when Vito was shot by a group of Mad Dog Irishmen it was more than just a shoulder injury. I would have expected that he would have had to be in the hospital. Also Puzo speaks of Sonny taking charge while Vito was down and starting his own regime "like a young napoleon" I didnt see any of that in the novel so for that Im a bit dissappointed


There are MANY discrepancies between The Godfatherbook and The Family Corleone..... most notably what you mentioned. This really bothers me. I always liked the idea of Sonny being a "Young Napoleon" and was waiting for him to kick some ass as I read the book. Never really happened. The Luca Basement scene is different, as is Marranzano being changed to Mariposa. Theres a lot more that I can't think of off hand, but these kept me from really enjoying the book

Re: The Family Corleone [Re: RichCerto] #650100
06/05/12 02:23 PM
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The question is how much of it is directly taken from the Puzo script, and how much is artistic license. Maybe Puzo changed certain elements from his original novel himself.


"It was between the brothers Kay -- I had nothing to do with it."
Re: The Family Corleone [Re: Sonny_Black] #650200
06/06/12 10:17 AM
06/06/12 10:17 AM
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Originally Posted By: Sonny_Black
The question is how much of it is directly taken from the Puzo script, and how much is artistic license. Maybe Puzo changed certain elements from his original novel himself.


Agreed. I guess we'll never know. I know Puzo placed discrepancies between his book and the movies (Vincents existence for example), which bothered me also. Too many contradictions in this last installment make the whole body of Godfather work in-cohesive.

Re: The Family Corleone [Re: Johnny5] #650547
06/08/12 08:47 PM
06/08/12 08:47 PM
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Been away for awhile . . .

The basic narrative arc of The Family Corleone comes from Puzo's screenplay. Actually, it's not one screenplay, but rather unproduced pages extracted from The Godfather 3, and pages from The Godfather 4--the movie Coppola and Puzo wanted to make but Paramount scotched. There's a total of about 55 pages of script, and I followed as closely as possible Puzo's story, which was essentially about Sonny entering into his father's business, and Vito's resistance to Sonny being in the business. But 55 pages of script won't stretch into a 450 page novel, so I had to do a lot of inventing built around Puzo's framework. Mostly I did my best to stay true to the spirit of Puzo's work. One book reviewer wrote that it was tough for anyone to write a prequel/sequel to Puzo because his fans are so loyal they'll likely burn the writer in effigy for even trying. So far--at least as far as I know--no one has burned me in effigy, and so I'm grateful. I'm also a Puzo fan. He was a great storyteller. I think The Fortunate Pilgrim is his best book. In fact, I think it's a masterpiece of American Lit. But I also like The Sicilian a great deal, and The Last Don. They're good stories and great reads.

I'm reading Man of Honor now, Joe Bonanno's autobiography. Interesting to see how much of The Godfather is borrowed from the history of the Castellammarese wars.

Re: The Family Corleone [Re: RichCerto] #650563
06/08/12 10:21 PM
06/08/12 10:21 PM
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"Rich", I'll say again, that I'm not a huge reader (damn Internet and real life keeps me away most of the time), but I have to say that I've been absorbed in your fine work! Steinbeck has been my favorite, and you have a stroke of his fine visuals. Your prose is also quite cinematic at times, which really adds to the story -- as I try to visualize how it would appear in a film. I'm not quite finished yet -- have about 80pp to go -- but I'll say you've done a fine job indeed. cool But I gotta see how it ends first lol Kudos!



I studied Italian for 2 semesters. Not once was a "C" pronounced as a "G", and never was a trailing "I" ignored! And I'm from Jersey! tongue lol

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Re: The Family Corleone [Re: J Geoff] #650568
06/08/12 11:33 PM
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Thanks. Much appreciated. Steinbeck is an American great, an icon.

Re: The Family Corleone [Re: RichCerto] #650593
06/09/12 07:32 AM
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I'm enjoying the story so far too. I'm taking my time to read it. Probably 10-20 pages a day or so. I'm in chapter 13 now.

I've noticed that Mrs. Columbo in this novel is actually written as Colombo in the original novel and film. And shouldn't Carmella be written as Carmela? I read somewhere that the name in Italian is only written with one L.

Call me a purist or whatever. whistle


"It was between the brothers Kay -- I had nothing to do with it."
Re: The Family Corleone [Re: RichCerto] #650747
06/10/12 09:10 AM
06/10/12 09:10 AM
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I find it intriguing that some of the "little things" that are pointed out actually made it to print. With the loyal and very attentive fan base of all things Godfather/Puzo/FFC coupled with the Winegardner disappointments - how can this be? Please don't perceive this as a call out or disrespect, Mr. Certo but I for one would have liked to see a bit more attention to detail. I realize that these are just small pebbles in the big sea. Please don't be offended.
Admittedly, I have not read this yet but I will soon. My general and most likely ignorant comments are based upon first impressions of the feedback on this thread. I look forward to losing myself in this new GF world very very soon. It must have been quite a task to attach all the patches of scripts and unpublished work with a common thread. I'm sure when I have finished all those "little things" will not matter.

(Yes - all this from someone who couldn't write a short story if their own life depended upon it! wink )

Re: The Family Corleone [Re: J Geoff] #651186
06/12/12 05:14 PM
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Originally Posted By: J Geoff

"Rich", I have to say that I've been absorbed in your fine work! Your prose is also quite cinematic at times, which really adds to the story -- as I try to visualize how it would appear in a film. I'm not quite finished yet -- but I'll say you've done a fine job indeed. cool But I gotta see how it ends first lol Kudos!


DITTO......I too am sincerely enjoying this book.



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Re: The Family Corleone [Re: RichCerto] #651287
06/13/12 07:14 AM
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Mr. Certo, just wanted to let you know that I thoroughly enjoyed the book. Just thought you'd like to hear that instead of all the nit picking.

Well done, sir.

Re: The Family Corleone [Re: Bozak] #651306
06/13/12 09:55 AM
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Originally Posted By: Bozak
Mr. Certo, just wanted to let you know that I thoroughly enjoyed the book. Just thought you'd like to hear that instead of all the nit picking.

Well done, sir.


There are at least as many compliments so far as there is nitpicking, which is ofcourse a good thing. Any good writer should endure criticism and nitpicking, especially if it's about The Godfather.


"It was between the brothers Kay -- I had nothing to do with it."
Re: The Family Corleone [Re: RichCerto] #651881
06/17/12 01:22 PM
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I will nitpick just two more details.

1. Paulie could not be 10 years old in 1935. In the original novel he is described as being 26 years old in 1945.

2. Connie could not be 6 years old in 1934, at least regarding the movie timeline as that would be physically impossible. When Vito and his family return to Sicily, Michael is a toddler of about three years old and Connie is a baby. So that means that Connie was born in 1922/1923, maybe 1924 at the latest. I think Ed Falco based this on the official timeline which states that Connie was born in 1927. I doubt this timeline was constructed by FFC.

I understand this will probably be annoying, but I really can't help mentioning it. I've just finished the story and will post my opinion later on.


"It was between the brothers Kay -- I had nothing to do with it."
Re: The Family Corleone [Re: RichCerto] #651912
06/17/12 05:06 PM
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I was at a bonfire last night and threw the book in the fire.


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Re: The Family Corleone [Re: RichCerto] #652065
06/18/12 11:00 AM
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So, after the Weingardner books I swore not to read any other attempts at new Godfather material. The temptation of the Family Corleone was too much and I took it out of the library and read it. The bar was set pretty low for it in my mind, but I found myself enjoying it. I like the idea that you know most of the characters, but some of the storylines seem a little too contrived. It almost tried too hard to tie up questions and use Italian slang. I still enjoyed it, and you could make a movie out of it.


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Re: The Family Corleone [Re: Sonny_Black] #652075
06/18/12 11:56 AM
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Originally Posted By: Sonny_Black
Paulie could not be 10 years old in 1935. In the original novel he is described as being 26 years old in 1945.

I caught that too, Sonny. The original novel clearly states that Michael and Paulie were once classmates. That's why Michael felt bad when he heard what happened to Paulie. Falco's novel has Michael being four years older than Paulie.

Here's how I feel in a nutshell: Falco's novel was well written, but it was poorly researched. It's one thing to make an anachronism like the needle on the Empire State Building, but to get the ages wrong on major characters is quite another thing. And I still can't get past the Rosato brothers being portrayed as contemporaries of Vito's. They were clearly much younger than Pentangeli in Part II.


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Re: The Family Corleone [Re: RichCerto] #652105
06/18/12 01:52 PM
06/18/12 01:52 PM
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I can live with the Rosato brothers being around in the early days, because there's no rule that they should be completely reminiscent to the Gallo brothers, whom they are based on. Afterall, The Godfather has its own universe. I also don't have a problem with the war being set a year later than in the original novel. Remember that Clemenza says in film that the last war took place ten years earlier.

But I can't deny that I also have the impression that this story was written too hastily, based on the many discrepancies. But then again, the original novel and even the films also have many discrepancies, which we are all more than aware of.

The good thing about this novel is that's its much more a novel like the original than the Winegardner stuff. It's much more true to the original novel and the films and is therefore a nice addition. The portrayal of the main characters, like Vito, Sonny and the rest of the family is well done. They all act and behave authentically, based upon their behaviour and personality as seen in the films. I especially liked the story of Sonny and Sandra, which was excellent and very realistic. I very much enjoyed that part. So for that I give Falco a big plus.

But this novel also has too much of an introduction and too less of an ending. IMO, a little too much of the story is focussed on the Irish, and too less on the actual war between the Corleones and Maranzano/Mariposa, which was something that I think this novel was supposed to be about. In the original novel the war went on for six months, while in this novel it only went on for a couple of weeks. So in that perspective, the story lacks information and it leaves many questions unanswered. I'm a little disappointed in the fact that there's no mention of Hyman Roth, Moe Greene or Murder Inc., which was at its height in the mid 1930s.

The story overall is decent, but as of this moment it's not completely fulfiling. I hope that Falco makes some changes in a next edition based on our feedback.


"It was between the brothers Kay -- I had nothing to do with it."
Re: The Family Corleone [Re: RichCerto] #652106
06/18/12 01:59 PM
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Also, I would like to add that I think Frankie Pentangeli may be a bit too old in this novel. He's described as being about 40 in 1933, which would make him about 15 years older than the actor who portrayed him. Michael V. Gazzo was only 50 years old when he portrayed Pentangeli.

Not that's it's such a big deal, but I like to pay attention to those details. wink


"It was between the brothers Kay -- I had nothing to do with it."
Re: The Family Corleone [Re: Sonny_Black] #653145
06/25/12 07:58 PM
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Originally Posted By: Sonny_Black
I can live with the Rosato brothers being around in the early days, because there's no rule that they should be completely reminiscent to the Gallo brothers, whom they are based on. Afterall, The Godfather has its own universe. I also don't have a problem with the war being set a year later than in the original novel. Remember that Clemenza says in film that the last war took place ten years earlier.

But I can't deny that I also have the impression that this story was written too hastily, based on the many discrepancies. But then again, the original novel and even the films also have many discrepancies, which we are all more than aware of.

The good thing about this novel is that's its much more a novel like the original than the Winegardner stuff. It's much more true to the original novel and the films and is therefore a nice addition. The portrayal of the main characters, like Vito, Sonny and the rest of the family is well done. They all act and behave authentically, based upon their behaviour and personality as seen in the films. I especially liked the story of Sonny and Sandra, which was excellent and very realistic. I very much enjoyed that part. So for that I give Falco a big plus.

But this novel also has too much of an introduction and too less of an ending. IMO, a little too much of the story is focussed on the Irish, and too less on the actual war between the Corleones and Maranzano/Mariposa, which was something that I think this novel was supposed to be about. In the original novel the war went on for six months, while in this novel it only went on for a couple of weeks. So in that perspective, the story lacks information and it leaves many questions unanswered. I'm a little disappointed in the fact that there's no mention of Hyman Roth, Moe Greene or Murder Inc., which was at its height in the mid 1930s.

The story overall is decent, but as of this moment it's not completely fulfiling. I hope that Falco makes some changes in a next edition based on our feedback.


Well said my friend. I agree all around.

Overall I did enjoy the novel as, unlike the other two pieces of Winegardner trash, this was a quick read and overall stood true to the original novel and films. If memory serves me correctly this novel was written based on a screenplay. If that be the case then I can understand that while many things would have to be based around the original novel, overall it would also have to serve some of the things that we saw in the film. So therefore I can understand that some of the things that we may have read in the original novel had to be altered so that they would lean more towards coinciding with the the films.

However, with all that being said, there is one particular detail that has troubled me. Now I am going off of memory as it's been a long time since I read Puzo's novel. Am I correct in remembering that in Puzo's novel the Irish gang shot Vito in the throat / chest area causing him to talk with a raspy voice?



Don Cardi cool

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Re: The Family Corleone [Re: Don Cardi] #653215
06/26/12 11:03 AM
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Originally Posted By: Don Cardi
However, with all that being said, there is one particular detail that has troubled me. Now I am going off of memory as it's been a long time since I read Puzo's novel. Am I correct in remembering that in Puzo's novel the Irish gang shot Vito in the throat / chest area causing him to talk with a raspy voice?


In Puzo's novel he was hit in the chest. The raspy voice was introduced by Marlon Brando after he had watched tapes of Frank Costello during the Kefauver hearings.


"It was between the brothers Kay -- I had nothing to do with it."
Re: The Family Corleone [Re: RichCerto] #653228
06/26/12 11:47 AM
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I wonder what J Geoff's final opinion is. He must have finished the novel by now?


"It was between the brothers Kay -- I had nothing to do with it."
Re: The Family Corleone [Re: Sonny_Black] #653327
06/26/12 08:55 PM
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Originally Posted By: Sonny_Black
Originally Posted By: Don Cardi
However, with all that being said, there is one particular detail that has troubled me. Now I am going off of memory as it's been a long time since I read Puzo's novel. Am I correct in remembering that in Puzo's novel the Irish gang shot Vito in the throat / chest area causing him to talk with a raspy voice?


In Puzo's novel he was hit in the chest. The raspy voice was introduced by Marlon Brando after he had watched tapes of Frank Costello during the Kefauver hearings.


Ok, I thought that the novel stated that he was shot in the chest. So why write in this novel that he was shot in the arm? confused

I believe that after reading the Puzo novel and reading that Vito was shot in the chest, Brando felt that Vito should now have a raspy voice.

And one other thing that troubled me was that no mention was made of Sonny seeing Vito kill Fannucci. In this novel he says that he saw Vito kill Tom's biological father, but never references his witnessing Vito killing Fannucci. confused

Once again, overall I enjoyed this book. But I am just a bit confused as to why these two key references from the original novel were not mentioned (Fannucci) and changed (Shot in the arm).

RichCerto?




Don Cardi cool

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Re: The Family Corleone [Re: Don Cardi] #653378
06/27/12 10:31 AM
06/27/12 10:31 AM
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Originally Posted By: Don Cardi
So why write in this novel that he was shot in the arm? confused


I think he was hit in the shoulder. And the shoulder and chest are not that far apart. tongue

Quote:
And one other thing that troubled me was that no mention was made of Sonny seeing Vito kill Fannucci. In this novel he says that he saw Vito kill Tom's biological father, but never references his witnessing Vito killing Fannucci. confused


In this novel Falco based Sonny's ago on the movie timeline. I always thought it to be a little strange that a three or four year old Sonny would be able to go outside alone and follow his father over the roof, and last but not least, that he would even remember seeing such a thing at that age. That's why I think in this novel Falco changed it to Sonny seeing Vito murdering Tom's father when he was younger.


"It was between the brothers Kay -- I had nothing to do with it."
Re: The Family Corleone [Re: RichCerto] #653469
06/27/12 11:33 PM
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my biggest issue is the "forced post foreshadowing" (a term i invented lol). I know the movie by heart sir. I do NOT need you to describe the towel that Vito shoots Fannuci with or how Vito witnesses his mother being blasted with a shotgun and "her arms flaring up". [and many MANY more]


"From now on, nothing goes down unless I'm involved. No blackjack no dope deals, no nothing. A nickel bag gets sold in the park, I want in. You guys got fat while everybody starved on the street. Now it's my turn." (King of New York)
Re: The Family Corleone [Re: FrankWhite] #653527
06/28/12 11:33 AM
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I agree with Don Cardi about Sonny. Puzo's book made it pretty clear that the defining moment of Sonny's young life was watching his father kill Fanucci. In Falco's book the defining moment is when he sees Tom's father get killed. I get what SB is saying about the timeline. He's right. But if that's the case, Falco shouldn't have had Sonny witness a murder at all. That scene just played too big a part in the original novel to change.

As far as the foreshadowing, from the first time I read the line "the furnace roared," and he mentioned it more than once, I knew where he was going. I think we all did.


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Re: The Family Corleone [Re: pizzaboy] #653600
06/28/12 06:04 PM
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Originally Posted By: pizzaboy


As far as the foreshadowing, from the first time I read the line "the furnace roared," and he mentioned it more than once, I knew where he was going. I think we all did.


unfortunately smh. shoot... everything seemed so forced. like there were times where times, like when he was describing the Fannuci hit, that i actually felt so embarrassingly uncomfortable that I physically began gritting my teeth and had to put it down.

BUT... all that being said... I will say that I did enjoy the read. It actually gave me more Sonny and Luca (which are 2 of my fave characters). I always felt like I never really knew Luca or Sonny... only the over acted caricatures of the part of their personalities that was needed to be shown to connect dots within the plot.


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Re: The Family Corleone [Re: FrankWhite] #655172
07/12/12 11:30 AM
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DeathByClotheshanger Offline
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DeathByClotheshanger  Offline
Underboss
Joined: Jun 2004
Posts: 831
New Market, MD
I have maybe 20 pages left to read...but I have really enjoyed it thus far. The changes bugged me, since this is a franchise where details are so important, but overall, I think Falco got Vito and Sonny perfectly...even the limited dialog of Pentangelli was spot on.

I also wish the novel would have had more of the similar structure of the films, but all in all it was a great read.

Job well done.

Re: The Family Corleone [Re: RichCerto] #655649
07/16/12 01:51 AM
07/16/12 01:51 AM
Joined: Jul 2012
Posts: 3,691
J
jace Offline
Underboss
jace  Offline
J
Underboss
Joined: Jul 2012
Posts: 3,691
I just read it, thought the Luca Brasi parts were too cartoonish. Also the dropping of names of characters from movie and original book was a bit forced.

Sonny was actually made into annoying character, with his frequent interruptions. It was overdone.

Re: The Family Corleone [Re: RichCerto] #656068
07/19/12 02:31 PM
07/19/12 02:31 PM
Joined: May 2010
Posts: 3,568
Sonny_Black Offline
Underboss
Sonny_Black  Offline
Underboss
Joined: May 2010
Posts: 3,568
It's about a month after I finished the novel and the feeling I have about it is still pretty good, despite some of the flaws. The portrayal of the main characters is the strongest part. I also like the idea of Barzini being a lieutenant for Maranzano/Mariposa and ultimately betraying him, because that was typically the kind of figure he was. Barzini was very much a Vito Genovese; very cunning, ambitious, unreliable and opportunistic.

The ending however is somewhat rushed and I think adding an epiloque to the story might be a good idea. Also, I missed Don Altobello as Connie's godfather and the family's oldest friend.


"It was between the brothers Kay -- I had nothing to do with it."
Re: The Family Corleone [Re: RichCerto] #659901
08/13/12 07:27 AM
08/13/12 07:27 AM
Joined: Aug 2002
Posts: 8,389
Staten Island / New Jersey
Just Lou Offline
Just Lou  Offline

Joined: Aug 2002
Posts: 8,389
Staten Island / New Jersey
I've had the book sitting on my coffee table for months now, and I haven't even opened it yet. Some day. lol

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