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Re: Did made guys ever change families?
[Re: Camarel]
#653101
06/25/12 10:25 AM
06/25/12 10:25 AM
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Joined: Nov 2011
Posts: 2,418
Secret location (WITSEC)
HairyKnuckles
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Posts: 2,418
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In valachis genovese chart it says carmine persico was a soldier was that true or was it a mistake ? Those charts are legendary. They are extremely interesting. However they are not 100 percent accurate. Persico is one of the dudes who are misplaced on the charts and there are others as well. Natale Evola for example, who is listed as a Lucchese member, should had been placed on the Bonanno chart instead. Carmine Persico´s father was a member of the Genoveses though. They shared the same name which may have confused the investigators back then. Valachi did give plenty of names, but not all of the names placed on the charts came from Valachi. The FBN and other law enforcement agencies contributed to the charts as well.
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Re: Did made guys ever change families?
[Re: pmac]
#653209
06/26/12 10:37 AM
06/26/12 10:37 AM
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Joined: Nov 2011
Posts: 2,418
Secret location (WITSEC)
HairyKnuckles
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patriarca had a couple guys come and go theres nick bianco who some how was sent to help in the colombo/gallo war and was a capo according to scarpa was 1 of colombos favorites but right before colombo got hit he was back to rhode island i think he was tipped off. then the guy henry tameleo who was in the bonanno family moved to the boston era and was consig. jr russo was with paul vario in the 60tys probaly just asscoiate. i read the sam the plumber book if that guy corcky was made in 1 family but transferd to sams family and alot of the family didnt trust him for a while, then i read d.b. bernado was with sam's family and released to the gambinos probaly cause he made so much money in manhattan. its something big paul probaly wanted the guy d.b. was the biggest porno guy in america in the late 70tys. connected in new england, florida, and cali. Yes, you are right about Bianco. He was made into the Colombo Family in 1963 so that he would have an easier job to work out a truce between the warring factions. Gallos seems to have had respect for him as a persona but didn´t recognize him as an authority until he was made. He was appointed caporegime in 1970 but without a crew. I think Colombo had promised him at least a couple of soldiers but this promise never materialized. Eventually, Colombo and Bianco had a fall out and Bianco was demoted to the rank of a soldier. According to Greg Scarpa, Bianco switched to the Patriarca Family in 1973. That´s two years after the Colombo shooting. Tameleo was originally a Brooklynite before moving to Rhode Island. But I haven´t seen anything (evidence wise) that suggests that Tameleo had been a Bonanno member. Robert DiBernardo started out as an associate with the DeCavalcantes but wasn´t made with that Family. He transfered to Castellano before being made in 1977 and was first put in the same crew as Tommy Bilotti (not sure Bilotti was a capo at that time), before switching to Zappi crew.
Last edited by HairyKnuckles; 06/26/12 10:52 AM.
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Re: Did made guys ever change families?
[Re: Mickey_MeatBalls_DeMonica]
#653330
06/26/12 09:40 PM
06/26/12 09:40 PM
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Joined: Jun 2012
Posts: 1,113
Ted
Underboss
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Underboss
Joined: Jun 2012
Posts: 1,113
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Ack whatzizname was it Stephen "The Whale" Cino that swapped from Buffalo to LA?
& Pete Milano's father Anthony was the Cleveland Underboss before moving the family out to LA (& joining the Family)
Im pretty sure Nick Licata was made in Detroit before becoming LA Boss. Theres definitely a fair bit of it in LA from memory. Not mentioning all the guys that came from interstate as an associate & got made in LA, like Mike Rizzitello, or Porno Mike Esposito, or you get the idea. Hm. Lips Moceri? (actually i think he went the other way, leaving LA for Cleveland.
Anthony Milano never switched families. He just had a lot of business interests on the West Coast and in Vegas. He held on to the title of underboss of the Cleveland family until the 1970s. Although by that time he was underboss in name only as other guys were acting in his place (most notably Frank Brancato). He spent his later years in Cleveland where he passed away. Licata was indeed made in Detroit, but I think (and this is just a guess) that Morceri was made in Cleveland after leaving L.A.
"I die outside; I die in jail. It don't matter to me," -John Franzese
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Re: Did made guys ever change families?
[Re: ht2]
#653352
06/27/12 01:48 AM
06/27/12 01:48 AM
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Joined: Nov 2011
Posts: 2,418
Secret location (WITSEC)
HairyKnuckles
Underboss
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Underboss
Joined: Nov 2011
Posts: 2,418
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On another blog someone suggested that "Patsy Ryan" Eboli may have switched from the Genovese to Colombo's after his brother Tom was killed in early 1970's. I've never read anything to suggest this actually happened though. Anyone know? Patsy Ryan was a pretty high profile guy around that time so I would think that Scarpa would have known if this switch to the Colombos actually occurred. But there is nothing in Scarpa´s files that says this. (If it has not been redacted that is.) What you could do is ask the poster (if he´s still active) what his sources are. Some sources are more creditable and reliable than others. I would think that Patsy Ryan changed crews within the Genovese Family after his brother´s death and after being demoted. So he might have found himself under a different captain than Gigante, who took over the crew. This could be the source of the confusion. But I have never came across any reliable info saying he switched Families.
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Re: Did made guys ever change families?
[Re: HairyKnuckles]
#653379
06/27/12 10:42 AM
06/27/12 10:42 AM
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Joined: May 2010
Posts: 3,568
Sonny_Black
Underboss
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Underboss
Joined: May 2010
Posts: 3,568
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there were the gallo bros who transferred over to the genovese from the colombos Yes, but keep in mind that Albert Gallo wasn´t made when this occurred. I think it´s easier with associates to change affiliation than made members. Are you sure about that? Someone at the other forum also thought that Joey Gallo wasn't a made member.
"It was between the brothers Kay -- I had nothing to do with it."
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Re: Did made guys ever change families?
[Re: Sonny_Black]
#653388
06/27/12 12:52 PM
06/27/12 12:52 PM
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Joined: Nov 2011
Posts: 2,418
Secret location (WITSEC)
HairyKnuckles
Underboss
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Underboss
Joined: Nov 2011
Posts: 2,418
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there were the gallo bros who transferred over to the genovese from the colombos Yes, but keep in mind that Albert Gallo wasn´t made when this occurred. I think it´s easier with associates to change affiliation than made members. Are you sure about that? Someone at the other forum also thought that Joey Gallo wasn't a made member. I´m positivly sure Sonny. I´m kinda surprised you would think that Joey Gallo was not a member. He was shelved but still a member. After the Colombo hit, he was totally ousted. You can find this in the Scarpa files. If you´re still uncertain, use NARA Record number 124-10293-10244 (to view another document) when visiting the very useful Mary Ferrell Foundation site. Here´s a partial excerpt from page 3 and 4 of that document (wich is dated 1968): "Informant was shown photographs of various individuals who have been connected with Cosa Nostra and he commented as follows: CARMINE CONSALVO Proposed member In the GAMBINO family DAVID RAVA Son of TOMMY RAVA Not a member ALFRED J. CIMEI Not a member HARRY FONTANA Capodeeina in COLOMBO family SALVATORE D`AMBROSIO Soldier in COLOMBO family PHIL FONTANO Soldier in the COLOMBO family, under Harry Fontana FREDDIE LA PONZINA Soldier in COLOMBO family ANTHONY LA PONZINA Soldier in COLOMBO family LAWRENCE LAMPASI Not a member ANTHONY LEONE Member of COLOMBO family (not SCIACCA family) FRANK ILLIANO Not a member LAWRENCE GALLO Deceased member of COLOMBO family JOSEPH GALLO Member of COLOMBO family LOUIS GEORGIANO Possibly dead. Under SARO MOGAVERO in GENOVESE family ALBERT GALLO not a member ANTHONY BONASERA Soldier in COLOMBO family" If you read the document (all of it) you will find that this particular informant was extremely reliable. He might have been a highranking member. You can find tons of documents on the site stating that Larry and Joey were members, but Albert was not. (Throughout the 1960s that is.)
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Re: Did made guys ever change families?
[Re: HairyKnuckles]
#653435
06/27/12 05:17 PM
06/27/12 05:17 PM
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Joined: Jun 2012
Posts: 1,113
Ted
Underboss
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Underboss
Joined: Jun 2012
Posts: 1,113
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Jimmy Fratianno and Johnny Rosselli were part of the LA family before switching to the Outfit (Fratianno would later switch back). Roselli was an outfit guy all the way. He was sent to LA in the 1940s but never switched membership to that Family. Roselli was bootlegging in Los Angeles in the mid 1920s with Tony Cornero. When Jack Dragna died in 1956, Roselli was a candidate to take over the family, but DeSimone was selected. After that, he was able to switch back to the Outfit since he already knew Ricca and Gianacana. This was documented in The Last Mafioso.
"I die outside; I die in jail. It don't matter to me," -John Franzese
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Re: Did made guys ever change families?
[Re: HairyKnuckles]
#653446
06/27/12 05:51 PM
06/27/12 05:51 PM
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Joined: Apr 2009
Posts: 4,089
Brooklyn, New York
Dapper_Don
Underboss
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Underboss
Joined: Apr 2009
Posts: 4,089
Brooklyn, New York
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there were the gallo bros who transferred over to the genovese from the colombos Yes, but keep in mind that Albert Gallo wasn´t made when this occurred. I think it´s easier with associates to change affiliation than made members. Are you sure about that? Someone at the other forum also thought that Joey Gallo wasn't a made member. I´m positivly sure Sonny. I´m kinda surprised you would think that Joey Gallo was not a member. He was shelved but still a member. After the Colombo hit, he was totally ousted. You can find this in the Scarpa files. If you´re still uncertain, use NARA Record number 124-10293-10244 (to view another document) when visiting the very useful Mary Ferrell Foundation site. Here´s a partial excerpt from page 3 and 4 of that document (wich is dated 1968): "Informant was shown photographs of various individuals who have been connected with Cosa Nostra and he commented as follows: CARMINE CONSALVO Proposed member In the GAMBINO family DAVID RAVA Son of TOMMY RAVA Not a member ALFRED J. CIMEI Not a member HARRY FONTANA Capodeeina in COLOMBO family SALVATORE D`AMBROSIO Soldier in COLOMBO family PHIL FONTANO Soldier in the COLOMBO family, under Harry Fontana FREDDIE LA PONZINA Soldier in COLOMBO family ANTHONY LA PONZINA Soldier in COLOMBO family LAWRENCE LAMPASI Not a member ANTHONY LEONE Member of COLOMBO family (not SCIACCA family) FRANK ILLIANO Not a member LAWRENCE GALLO Deceased member of COLOMBO family JOSEPH GALLO Member of COLOMBO family LOUIS GEORGIANO Possibly dead. Under SARO MOGAVERO in GENOVESE family ALBERT GALLO not a member ANTHONY BONASERA Soldier in COLOMBO family" If you read the document (all of it) you will find that this particular informant was extremely reliable. He might have been a highranking member. You can find tons of documents on the site stating that Larry and Joey were members, but Albert was not. (Throughout the 1960s that is.) any ideas who this informant was? scarpa sr?
Tommy Shots: They want me running the family, don't they know I have a young wife?
Sal Vitale: (laughs) Tommy, jump in, the water's fine.
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Re: Did made guys ever change families?
[Re: GaryH]
#653500
06/28/12 10:14 AM
06/28/12 10:14 AM
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Joined: Jun 2012
Posts: 517
NJ
FrankMazola
Underboss
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Underboss
Joined: Jun 2012
Posts: 517
NJ
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Surprised nobody mentioned "Fat" Jack DiNorscio formerly of the Philly Mob, came over to the Luccheses, I believe.
F. Mazola, Esq.
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Re: Did made guys ever change families?
[Re: HairyKnuckles]
#653569
06/28/12 02:27 PM
06/28/12 02:27 PM
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Joined: May 2010
Posts: 3,568
Sonny_Black
Underboss
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Underboss
Joined: May 2010
Posts: 3,568
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I´m positivly sure Sonny. I´m kinda surprised you would think that Joey Gallo was not a member. He was shelved but still a member. After the Colombo hit, he was totally ousted. You can find this in the Scarpa files.
If you´re still uncertain, use NARA Record number 124-10293-10244 (to view another document) when visiting the very useful Mary Ferrell Foundation site. Here´s a partial excerpt from page 3 and 4 of that document (wich is dated 1968):
I always assumed he was a made member based on that he was able to pull of a rebellion against a reputable boss. The source you post seems credible, but with member does he actually mean a made member? Sometimes certain associates are identified as members as well.
"It was between the brothers Kay -- I had nothing to do with it."
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Re: Did made guys ever change families?
[Re: Sonny_Black]
#653571
06/28/12 02:42 PM
06/28/12 02:42 PM
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Joined: Nov 2011
Posts: 2,418
Secret location (WITSEC)
HairyKnuckles
Underboss
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Underboss
Joined: Nov 2011
Posts: 2,418
Secret location (WITSEC)
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I´m positivly sure Sonny. I´m kinda surprised you would think that Joey Gallo was not a member. He was shelved but still a member. After the Colombo hit, he was totally ousted. You can find this in the Scarpa files.
If you´re still uncertain, use NARA Record number 124-10293-10244 (to view another document) when visiting the very useful Mary Ferrell Foundation site. Here´s a partial excerpt from page 3 and 4 of that document (wich is dated 1968):
with member does he actually mean a made member? Yes he does.
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Re: Did made guys ever change families?
[Re: Dapper_Don]
#653939
06/30/12 08:20 PM
06/30/12 08:20 PM
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Joined: Jun 2012
Posts: 517
NJ
FrankMazola
Underboss
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Underboss
Joined: Jun 2012
Posts: 517
NJ
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was [DiNorscio] a made guy? Touché
Last edited by FrankMazola; 06/30/12 08:21 PM.
F. Mazola, Esq.
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