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Re: Huge Mob Figures who Never Pulled the Trigger.
[Re: ImpactPlaya]
#653874
06/30/12 02:34 PM
06/30/12 02:34 PM
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Joined: Nov 2010
Posts: 840
BarrettM
Underboss
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Underboss
Joined: Nov 2010
Posts: 840
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John Scalish Cleveland boss Do you have any other information on John Scalish? I'd be very interested. Did Henry Hill ever kill anyone? On a drunken Howard Stern appearance he says yes, three times but who know with him.
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Re: Huge Mob Figures who Never Pulled the Trigger.
[Re: NickyScarfo]
#653892
06/30/12 03:28 PM
06/30/12 03:28 PM
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Joined: Jun 2011
Posts: 581
Orange County, CA
Nicholas
Underboss
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Underboss
Joined: Jun 2011
Posts: 581
Orange County, CA
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Was Scalish's real name Scalise?
"The Feds are a business Anthony, millions of tax dollars are invested in watching your ass, sooner or later, just like you, their gonna want a return on their investment." --- Neil Mink, Tony Soprano's lawyer
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Re: Huge Mob Figures who Never Pulled the Trigger...
[Re: NickyScarfo]
#653905
06/30/12 05:06 PM
06/30/12 05:06 PM
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Joined: Jun 2011
Posts: 581
Orange County, CA
Nicholas
Underboss
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Underboss
Joined: Jun 2011
Posts: 581
Orange County, CA
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It was also a helluva lot easier to get away with murder back then Ted
"The Feds are a business Anthony, millions of tax dollars are invested in watching your ass, sooner or later, just like you, their gonna want a return on their investment." --- Neil Mink, Tony Soprano's lawyer
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Re: Huge Mob Figures who Never Pulled the Trigger...
[Re: Joe_Bonanno]
#653940
06/30/12 09:22 PM
06/30/12 09:22 PM
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Joined: Jun 2012
Posts: 2,809
Scotland
Camarel
Underboss
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Underboss
Joined: Jun 2012
Posts: 2,809
Scotland
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Don Carlo worked as a hitman from a very young age, he killed people I'm almost 100% sure Where did you hear this out of interest? I've heard it from one documentary when I find it, I'll post it to you. Ok thanks was it when he was in the honored society in sicily ?
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Re: Huge Mob Figures who Never Pulled the Trigger...
[Re: Camarel]
#653945
06/30/12 09:31 PM
06/30/12 09:31 PM
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Joined: Jan 2012
Posts: 1,449
New Jersey
Five_Felonies
Underboss
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Underboss
Joined: Jan 2012
Posts: 1,449
New Jersey
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Did scarfo or ligambi kill anyone? If scarfo didn't that is very ironic lol didnt scarfo stab that guy to death with a big knife somewhere in a diner in south jersey? besides that, with scarfo i think everyone would agree that he ordered so many murders personally that it made no difference if he did it personally himself or not as he shared the same amount of responsibility as any of the murderers directly involved.
Last edited by Five_Felonies; 06/30/12 09:32 PM.
It's either blue cheese with wings or go fuck yer mudda!
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Re: Huge Mob Figures who Never Pulled the Trigger.
[Re: Camarel]
#653947
06/30/12 09:36 PM
06/30/12 09:36 PM
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Joined: Nov 2010
Posts: 840
BarrettM
Underboss
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Underboss
Joined: Nov 2010
Posts: 840
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Did scarfo or ligambi kill anyone? If scarfo didn't that is very ironic lol Ligambi allegedly was the murderer of Frankie Flowers D'Alfonso, but was acquitted. Scarfo killed that longshoreman with a knife in a diner (and was banished to AC for it).
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Re: Huge Mob Figures who Never Pulled the Trigger...
[Re: SC]
#653962
06/30/12 10:13 PM
06/30/12 10:13 PM
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Joined: Apr 2012
Posts: 578
danielperrygin
Underboss
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Underboss
Joined: Apr 2012
Posts: 578
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According to pic chin missed on purpose. I will find th post and put it up, there is a couple telling of reasons why. Th main one is that Chin and Vito would have had to have been killed if they would have carried out the hit. Don't believe the "play-by-the-rules" bullshit. Mob bosses were getting killed left and right in the 50s without any retribution. Genovese's biggest mistake was picking someone who got rattled around the ring too often to do the shooting.
As far as Costello goes....Vito didn't intend to kill him,if he had,and Chin actually was the shooter Chin never succeeds in his ride to the top,instead he takes a 'ride' the same night one way.If the move was to kill him regardless of the shooter he dies if he was successfull.It was a delicate piece of 'work' by some one well trained not to kill him.
Costello's shooting was a bargaining tool.Nothing more,nothing less.It was also some very intricate political stuff,Alberts murder was Vito's give back for Carlo's support.Probably the other 3 bosses as well.
YUP! 1.If they missed the first time they should have been able to get the job done over the next 16 years. 2.The commission was all powerfull at the time and killing Frank means death to all involved.Vito died in 69.....Miranda when???Catena???Carlo??? Point being they all died of natural causes. 3.What is never written about is that they were on the 'mattresses' for a year or so before the shooting.Very uneasy 'calm'.All the 47 and 54 guys laying low.Frank gets 'shot' and everything was put in place where it pretty much remains today. Vito didn't have much of a fan club  ,what he had was animal instinct to survive and was a stone killer.He kills Costello he gets clipped.He lets Costello live he has a bargaining chip. No more moves on Frank and no moves on him.Plus Carlo becomes boss and they become allies by attrition. Vito doesn't get his just due.All the 54 guys were 'his' hand picked choices.Frank was busy with the opera and Keafaufer.Probably the best graduating class in the history of Cosa Nostra....one foot in the past[tradition] and one foot pointed in a new direction.Vito bought in a Jersey guy as his under[Catena] and kept a mustasche as his consigliere as to not alienate the old guard and the NY guys.He brings in as his under a guy with so much money he didn't need the top spot and to much smarts to want it.....life without looking over your shoulder by design is a sign of genius.Plus he gets wired in nationally to the old syndicate,especially to the Jews who were shaping Vegas.Lansky was a Costello crony,Catena wires Vito in nationally where he hadn't be really welcome.He could blast through walls but using a door is easier,and Catena had the key.He was smart enough to choose Catena and that makes him a great boss if he never does another thing.Another thing is that Vito understood that a system of checks and balances is essential to maintaining power,so he created this shifting sands delegation of authority.I don't know if he sat down and planned this,doubt it.But in retrospect it is pure genius.He was dead 43 a month or so back and you can still reach into the well of the administration and find his thumb print all over the place. Pic
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Re: Huge Mob Figures who Never Pulled the Trigger...
[Re: danielperrygin]
#653972
06/30/12 10:48 PM
06/30/12 10:48 PM
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Joined: Jun 2012
Posts: 2,809
Scotland
Camarel
Underboss
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Underboss
Joined: Jun 2012
Posts: 2,809
Scotland
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According to pic chin missed on purpose. I will find th post and put it up, there is a couple telling of reasons why. Th main one is that Chin and Vito would have had to have been killed if they would have carried out the hit. Don't believe the "play-by-the-rules" bullshit. Mob bosses were getting killed left and right in the 50s without any retribution. Genovese's biggest mistake was picking someone who got rattled around the ring too often to do the shooting.
As far as Costello goes....Vito didn't intend to kill him,if he had,and Chin actually was the shooter Chin never succeeds in his ride to the top,instead he takes a 'ride' the same night one way.If the move was to kill him regardless of the shooter he dies if he was successfull.It was a delicate piece of 'work' by some one well trained not to kill him.
Costello's shooting was a bargaining tool.Nothing more,nothing less.It was also some very intricate political stuff,Alberts murder was Vito's give back for Carlo's support.Probably the other 3 bosses as well.
YUP! 1.If they missed the first time they should have been able to get the job done over the next 16 years. 2.The commission was all powerfull at the time and killing Frank means death to all involved.Vito died in 69.....Miranda when???Catena???Carlo??? Point being they all died of natural causes. 3.What is never written about is that they were on the 'mattresses' for a year or so before the shooting.Very uneasy 'calm'.All the 47 and 54 guys laying low.Frank gets 'shot' and everything was put in place where it pretty much remains today. Vito didn't have much of a fan club ,what he had was animal instinct to survive and was a stone killer.He kills Costello he gets clipped.He lets Costello live he has a bargaining chip. No more moves on Frank and no moves on him.Plus Carlo becomes boss and they become allies by attrition. Vito doesn't get his just due.All the 54 guys were 'his' hand picked choices.Frank was busy with the opera and Keafaufer.Probably the best graduating class in the history of Cosa Nostra....one foot in the past[tradition] and one foot pointed in a new direction.Vito bought in a Jersey guy as his under[Catena] and kept a mustasche as his consigliere as to not alienate the old guard and the NY guys.He brings in as his under a guy with so much money he didn't need the top spot and to much smarts to want it.....life without looking over your shoulder by design is a sign of genius.Plus he gets wired in nationally to the old syndicate,especially to the Jews who were shaping Vegas.Lansky was a Costello crony,Catena wires Vito in nationally where he hadn't be really welcome.He could blast through walls but using a door is easier,and Catena had the key.He was smart enough to choose Catena and that makes him a great boss if he never does another thing.Another thing is that Vito understood that a system of checks and balances is essential to maintaining power,so he created this shifting sands delegation of authority.I don't know if he sat down and planned this,doubt it.But in retrospect it is pure genius.He was dead 43 a month or so back and you can still reach into the well of the administration and find his thumb print all over the place. Pic Are you reffering to me asking if the chin ever killed anyone?
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Re: Huge Mob Figures who Never Pulled the Trigger...
[Re: Camarel]
#653984
07/01/12 01:24 AM
07/01/12 01:24 AM
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Joined: Jun 2011
Posts: 581
Orange County, CA
Nicholas
Underboss
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Underboss
Joined: Jun 2011
Posts: 581
Orange County, CA
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Did scarfo or ligambi kill anyone? If scarfo didn't that is very ironic lol Next to the old Petes I think Scarfo was the only mob boss (if not even across ethnic lines for the most part) who took part in murders or played an extensive part in planning some, i.e. Vincent Falcone, Alvin Feldman, Eddie Helfant, he also interrogated Joe Ciancaglini at gun point.
"The Feds are a business Anthony, millions of tax dollars are invested in watching your ass, sooner or later, just like you, their gonna want a return on their investment." --- Neil Mink, Tony Soprano's lawyer
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Re: Huge Mob Figures who Never Pulled the Trigger...
[Re: NickyScarfo]
#654031
07/01/12 01:31 PM
07/01/12 01:31 PM
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Joined: Apr 2012
Posts: 578
danielperrygin
Underboss
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Underboss
Joined: Apr 2012
Posts: 578
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Unless someone is posting as him he is still around. He doesnt post alot unless to answer a question or say something of his interests. Him and wiseguy(no offense ivy jus filling tag in) kinda got into it and he hasnt been around much since then.
Last edited by danielperrygin; 07/01/12 01:43 PM.
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Re: Huge Mob Figures who Never Pulled the Trigger...
[Re: Camarel]
#654034
07/01/12 01:45 PM
07/01/12 01:45 PM
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Joined: Apr 2012
Posts: 578
danielperrygin
Underboss
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Underboss
Joined: Apr 2012
Posts: 578
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According to pic chin missed on purpose. I will find th post and put it up, there is a couple telling of reasons why. Th main one is that Chin and Vito would have had to have been killed if they would have carried out the hit. Don't believe the "play-by-the-rules" bullshit. Mob bosses were getting killed left and right in the 50s without any retribution. Genovese's biggest mistake was picking someone who got rattled around the ring too often to do the shooting.
As far as Costello goes....Vito didn't intend to kill him,if he had,and Chin actually was the shooter Chin never succeeds in his ride to the top,instead he takes a 'ride' the same night one way.If the move was to kill him regardless of the shooter he dies if he was successfull.It was a delicate piece of 'work' by some one well trained not to kill him.
Costello's shooting was a bargaining tool.Nothing more,nothing less.It was also some very intricate political stuff,Alberts murder was Vito's give back for Carlo's support.Probably the other 3 bosses as well.
YUP! 1.If they missed the first time they should have been able to get the job done over the next 16 years. 2.The commission was all powerfull at the time and killing Frank means death to all involved.Vito died in 69.....Miranda when???Catena???Carlo??? Point being they all died of natural causes. 3.What is never written about is that they were on the 'mattresses' for a year or so before the shooting.Very uneasy 'calm'.All the 47 and 54 guys laying low.Frank gets 'shot' and everything was put in place where it pretty much remains today. Vito didn't have much of a fan club ,what he had was animal instinct to survive and was a stone killer.He kills Costello he gets clipped.He lets Costello live he has a bargaining chip. No more moves on Frank and no moves on him.Plus Carlo becomes boss and they become allies by attrition. Vito doesn't get his just due.All the 54 guys were 'his' hand picked choices.Frank was busy with the opera and Keafaufer.Probably the best graduating class in the history of Cosa Nostra....one foot in the past[tradition] and one foot pointed in a new direction.Vito bought in a Jersey guy as his under[Catena] and kept a mustasche as his consigliere as to not alienate the old guard and the NY guys.He brings in as his under a guy with so much money he didn't need the top spot and to much smarts to want it.....life without looking over your shoulder by design is a sign of genius.Plus he gets wired in nationally to the old syndicate,especially to the Jews who were shaping Vegas.Lansky was a Costello crony,Catena wires Vito in nationally where he hadn't be really welcome.He could blast through walls but using a door is easier,and Catena had the key.He was smart enough to choose Catena and that makes him a great boss if he never does another thing.Another thing is that Vito understood that a system of checks and balances is essential to maintaining power,so he created this shifting sands delegation of authority.I don't know if he sat down and planned this,doubt it.But in retrospect it is pure genius.He was dead 43 a month or so back and you can still reach into the well of the administration and find his thumb print all over the place. Pic Are you reffering to me asking if the chin ever killed anyone? Naw more to SC saying Chin had bad aim.
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Re: Huge Mob Figures who Never Pulled the Trigger...
[Re: Camarel]
#654043
07/01/12 02:08 PM
07/01/12 02:08 PM
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Joined: Jul 2001
Posts: 22,902
New York
SC
Consigliere
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Consigliere
Joined: Jul 2001
Posts: 22,902
New York
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Are you reffering to me asking if the chin ever killed anyone? Naw more to SC saying Chin had bad aim. I gave you my best answer to this and I stand by it. Believe it or don't; that's up to you. I ask one thing, though.... please use the quote feature correctly. It's hard to follow what you're trying to convey if used incorrectly. Thanks.
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Re: Huge Mob Figures who Never Pulled the Trigger...
[Re: danielperrygin]
#654047
07/01/12 02:42 PM
07/01/12 02:42 PM
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Joined: Aug 2010
Posts: 2,292
NJ
carmela
Underboss
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Underboss
Joined: Aug 2010
Posts: 2,292
NJ
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Unless someone is posting as him he is still around. He doesnt post alot unless to answer a question or say something of his interests. Him and wiseguy(no offense ivy jus filling tag in) kinda got into it and he hasnt been around much since then.
No need to fill me in. I was being sarcastic. I'm well aware of Lucky's come and go antics. He's made several "I'm outta here from now on, I will never post again" threads over the years. Now on to watch my game. Forza Italia.
La madre degli idioti e' sempre incinta.
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Re: Huge Mob Figures who Never Pulled the Trigger...
[Re: HairyKnuckles]
#654087
07/01/12 06:34 PM
07/01/12 06:34 PM
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Joined: Aug 2008
Posts: 8,534
IvyLeague
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Joined: Aug 2008
Posts: 8,534
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Regarding Lucky7´s post, I don´t see any solid arguments backing up his claim. It seems to me that he is mostly rambling. I understand that he is expressing his opinion which is fine, but hopefully there was somebody overthere who challanged his assertions.
SC is right. Back then Gigante had a reputation of somebody who had been hit too many times on the chin. I guess as a former boxer, and not a very good one, contributed to this reputation.
Don´t get me wrong though. As a boss, he seems to have been as smart and clever as any other boss throughout Mafia history. You pretty much said it. It's fine for pic/lucky7 to express his opinion. Though I'm not sure how he could really know that Chin missing was intentional. But, in any event, the problem comes that some people take what he says as gospel, and eventually, it's taken as fact that Chin really did intend to miss because, well, pic said so. In my opinion, it's very unlikely that there was any intention to just "graze" Costello. How realistic is that? I think Chin had every intention of blowing Costello away.
Last edited by IvyLeague; 07/01/12 06:35 PM.
Mods should mind their own business and leave poster's profile signatures alone.
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Re: Huge Mob Figures who Never Pulled the Trigger...
[Re: Ted]
#654094
07/01/12 06:55 PM
07/01/12 06:55 PM
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Joined: Jul 2001
Posts: 22,902
New York
SC
Consigliere
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Consigliere
Joined: Jul 2001
Posts: 22,902
New York
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Gigante was 21-4 as a boxer. So he definitely wasn't bad. Your argument doesn't hold water. 1. Pro boxing in the '50s wasn't exactly a clean sport. A young connected fighter's record may not indicate the true worth of the boxer. 2. Who did Gigante fight? Could've been a bunch of old club bums.
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Re: Huge Mob Figures who Never Pulled the Trigger...
[Re: SC]
#654105
07/01/12 09:06 PM
07/01/12 09:06 PM
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Joined: Apr 2012
Posts: 578
danielperrygin
Underboss
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Underboss
Joined: Apr 2012
Posts: 578
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Gigante was 21-4 as a boxer. So he definitely wasn't bad. Your argument doesn't hold water. 1. Pro boxing in the '50s wasn't exactly a clean sport. A young connected fighter's record may not indicate the true worth of the boxer. 2. Who did Gigante fight? Could've been a bunch of old club bums. If those are the times he boxed in so be it, he is a winner. I hear what your saying but thats like saying Bonds was not a good batter because he was on the juice, well so were the pitchers. Chin had his connections and so did everyone else. Im sure Chin was gave a few and gave away a few, but its not like all 25 fights had big money that mattered on it.
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Re: Huge Mob Figures who Never Pulled the Trigger.
[Re: BarrettM]
#654110
07/01/12 09:23 PM
07/01/12 09:23 PM
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Joined: Sep 2009
Posts: 19
Cleveland,Ohio
ImpactPlaya
Wiseguy
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Wiseguy
Joined: Sep 2009
Posts: 19
Cleveland,Ohio
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There isn't much on John Scalish (Giovanni Scalise)
But he rose fast in the family ranks.
he was a stick up man and took the rap for a robbery in the early 30's
He got a early pardon.
He was a lieutinent under Big Al Polizzi.
When Polizzi had made enough $$$$,he "retired" to Florida.
Because Scalish took the rap and didn't sell anybody out on that robbery of a bottling company,they made him boss at the Statler Hotel in Cleveland in 1944.
He was able to successfully merge business interests with the Jewish boys..Maishe Rockman, Shonder Birns.
But Dalitz, Tucker, Milano, already formed the "Combination" a decade earlier.
Scalish just did what was working well.
But after the Applachian Bust in 1957 with John DeMarco...Scalish decided to stop making new members. Closed the books. He had enough $$$$. Skim $$$,
casinos in Southern Ohio...gambling proceeds from Youngstown...his vending sevice....
At this time his health was slowly going south.
He moved out Kinsman Road(ghetto) in Cleveland to Gates Mills(Eastern Suburb) in 1964. Rockman and Lonardo moved to the same suburb.
Scalish was so well off,he gave the numbers rackets to Shonder Birns.
Intresting side note about Scalish.....the guys beneath him...Frank Brancato, Dominic Sospirato(Ange's cousin) John DeMarco, Anthony Milano all spoke in their old country dialects...Sicilian, Calabresian.....but Scalish didn't have a accent...I guess part of that being he was born in Cleveland.
I do know at some point Scalish instructed all his capos, and street bosses to drive Buicks instead of Cadillacs.
But Scalish was a very low key boss was very much in the shadows. He was close to Mickey Cohen and Jackie Pressers dad Bill Presser.
I don't think he imposed a street tax like that do in Chicago.
He lets all his underlings make their own money. Every earned under Scalish.
I don't he had "green eyes"
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