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Re: Crime & Justice
[Re: Lilo]
#659455
08/09/12 10:37 PM
08/09/12 10:37 PM
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Joined: Apr 2002
Posts: 25,984 California
The Italian Stallionette
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Joined: Apr 2002
Posts: 25,984
California
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Vietnam Vet murdered trying to protect grandchildren John Villneff gave his life for his granddaughter’s. The 62-year-old veteran and two-time Purple Heart recipient was shot twice Wednesday night as a robbery turned deadly on Detroit’s west side, his family said. The robbers had broken into Villneff’s daughter’s home next door to his on Rutland about 11 p.m. The granddaughter was one of several people at the home and ran to Villneff’s house as the robbers chased her because she was taking pictures of them. The family gave the photos to police, family members said. Villneff’s daughter, Melissa, said her father was shot in the heart and back as he tried to protect the girl. “He jumped in front of my niece because they were trying to kill her because she was taking pictures of them,” Melissa Villneff said this morning. elissa Villneff was leaving the Tigers game Wednesday night when her father called to say her house was being broken into, she said. His son, Michael, 37, said his father called him to say he'd been shot and was dying. "I didn't get the chance to say that I loved him," Michael Villneff said... Wow, what a sad story. Here the guy survived Viet Nam only to decades later get murdered at home. What's really heart-wrenching, tho heroic, is the fact that it was all for his granddaughter.  And his poor son, Michael. How can you know or think of exactly what to say or do in time of crisis. The family will all have a memory of a true loving husband/fathergrandfather & hero. TIS
"Mankind must put an end to war before war puts an end to mankind. War will exist until that distant day when the conscientious objector enjoys the same reputation and prestige that the warrior does today." JFK
"War is over, if you want it" - John Lennon
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Re: Crime & Justice
[Re: klydon1]
#660271
08/15/12 12:29 PM
08/15/12 12:29 PM
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Joined: Oct 2001
Posts: 19,694 AZ
Turnbull
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Joined: Oct 2001
Posts: 19,694
AZ
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Here's another interesting local case:
A man driving with a younger woman and her child suddenly veered off the road into a ditch. He and the woman were wearing seatbelts, and weren't hurt. The child wasn't belted, was thrown from the car and died immediately. Bystanders said the driver was abusive at the scene and warned them not to call police. When told that police had been notified, he fled the scene. He was arrested the next day.
Police said that "much of his blood alcohol content had metabolized the next day," But they believed he and the woman "had been drinking similar amounts." Her BAC at the scene of the accident "was astronomical."
The guy rejected a plea offer and will stand trial for manslaugher, aggravated assault, DUI, etc. County Attorney said the reason is that he "thinks he has only three or four years to live." I think his lawyer told him that he couldn't be convicted because the prosecution had no hard evidence that he'd been DUI at the time of the accident. The most he could be convicted of was leaving the scene of an accident.
But I wonder: Can someone be convicted of DUI and manslaugher ex post facto when there was no BAC test at the scene of the crime, and the police are going only on hearsay about his "drinking the same amount" as his passenger?
Ntra la porta tua lu sangu � sparsu, E nun me mporta si ce muoru accisu... E s'iddu muoru e vaju mparadisu Si nun ce truovo a ttia, mancu ce trasu.
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Re: Crime & Justice
[Re: olivant]
#660293
08/15/12 02:12 PM
08/15/12 02:12 PM
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Joined: Feb 2005
Posts: 11,468 With Geary in Fredo's Brothel
dontomasso
Consigliere to the Stars
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Consigliere to the Stars

Joined: Feb 2005
Posts: 11,468
With Geary in Fredo's Brothel
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An excellent question and delemma Kly. I usually confine my class's constitutional discussions to conflicts arising from the provisions of the 1st amendment. However, your's is one that I will definitely present to class.
Wouldn't the remedy be use immunity? If memory serves me right, I think the courts have generally sided with compelling such testimony, but with limitations. Is that correct? I think the remedy here IS use immunity, however that's somewhat tricky. What it means is thewitness can incriminate himself, but that single act of self incrimination can never be used against him or her in a subsequent proceeding. The problem is that if the person is a suspect, or of the authorities have narrowed it down to two individuals, the admission may lead to an arrest anyway.
"Io sono stanco, sono imbigliato, and I wan't everyone here to know, there ain't gonna be no trouble from me..Don Corleone..Cicc' a port!"
"I stood in the courtroom like a fool."
"I am Constanza: Lord of the idiots."
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Re: Crime & Justice
[Re: dontomasso]
#660298
08/15/12 02:35 PM
08/15/12 02:35 PM
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Joined: Dec 2006
Posts: 23,296 Throggs Neck
pizzaboy
The Fuckin Doctor
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The Fuckin Doctor

Joined: Dec 2006
Posts: 23,296
Throggs Neck
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I'm no legal expert, but I think when the government throws immunity at an uncooperative witness it just isn't fair. Now being that this is a mafia related board, I'll give an appropriate example.
Say some poor schmuck gets in deep debt to shylocks. His name then gets picked up on a wiretap, so the feds show up at his door asking questions. They're sure to point out to him that "he hasn't done anything wrong and that he's not a 'target' of any investigation." He then tells them he doesn't know what they're talking about. The feds then make a veiled threat and leave.
A year later, the same poor bastard gets a Grand Jury subpoena. When he shows up, he's again told that he's "not a 'target' of this investigation, but that his cooperation is expected." He then goes on the stand and tries to "take the fifth." The feds then come back at him with an immunity order.
Now the guy is REALLY stuck between a rock and a hard place. He either lies out of fear of the mob and risks being charged with perjury, tells the truth and risks the consequences, or goes to jail for contempt. And all this when he wasn't even a "target" of the investigation. It just doesn't seem fair to me.
And correct me if I'm wrong, but didn't England---who we got the system from in the first place---do away with Grand Juries?
"I got news for you. If it wasn't for the toilet, there would be no books." --- George Costanza.
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Re: Crime & Justice
[Re: dontomasso]
#660413
08/16/12 10:53 AM
08/16/12 10:53 AM
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Joined: Apr 2006
Posts: 11,797 Pennsylvania
klydon1
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Joined: Apr 2006
Posts: 11,797
Pennsylvania
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I think the remedy here IS use immunity, however that's somewhat tricky. What it means is thewitness can incriminate himself, but that single act of self incrimination can never be used against him or her in a subsequent proceeding. The problem is that if the person is a suspect, or of the authorities have narrowed it down to two individuals, the admission may lead to an arrest anyway.
I've never had a a client offered use immunity to testify. I'd be very suspicious if confronted with it for the reason you mention. Use immunity never appeared equal in scope to the privilege it seeks to replace. If a witness, refusing to testify on Fifth Amendment grounds, is offered use immunity, as opposed to transaction immunity, you can infer that the government is looking to prosecute him or her. The government may also already have an independent basis, on which to bring charges, and therefore a witness is compelled to incriminate himself. I'm wondering if you have any specific experience with use immunity. If so, before the court or the prosecutor offers it, is there an in camera proceeding to define the basis and extent of the immunity. Where I practiced, transactional immunity was the only type of immunity offered.
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Re: Crime & Justice
[Re: dontomasso]
#660550
08/16/12 11:10 PM
08/16/12 11:10 PM
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Joined: Oct 2001
Posts: 19,694 AZ
Turnbull
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Joined: Oct 2001
Posts: 19,694
AZ
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The big money quiz show scandals of 1958-59 ($64,000 Question, 21, etc.),when contestants like Herb Stempel and Charles Van Doren given the answers to questions to make them look like geniuses,made a big impression on me when I was a youngster. The NY County DA started investigating them via grand juries, but was quickly eclipsed by an obscure House of Representatives subcommittee, which had televised hearings and made global headlines.
Years later, I wondered: On what grounds did the NY DA call a grand jury investigation? It wasn't against the law to present "fiction" on TV--if it were, Hal Holbrook could have been arrested for impersonating Abe Lincoln on one drama. And TV was pervasively regulated by Congress and the FCC. I tried for years to find an answer.
Finally got it in an obscure book, "Prime Time Misdemeanors," by Joe Stone the assistant DA who launched the investigation. I thought NY grand juries were empowered only to return "true bills" (indictments). Turns out the DA also could call grand juries to investigate "any matter or situation that might require new regulations or legislations." Pretty broad charter, IMO. I wonder if other states or counties grant such broad leeway to grand juries?
Ntra la porta tua lu sangu � sparsu, E nun me mporta si ce muoru accisu... E s'iddu muoru e vaju mparadisu Si nun ce truovo a ttia, mancu ce trasu.
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Re: Crime & Justice
[Re: olivant]
#662589
08/27/12 12:45 PM
08/27/12 12:45 PM
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Joined: Apr 2006
Posts: 11,797 Pennsylvania
klydon1
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Joined: Apr 2006
Posts: 11,797
Pennsylvania
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Another question Kly: when would you expect a directed verdict of acquittal to be issued? As soon as the prosecution rests, the defense may make a motion at sidebar for a directed verdict. If the judge deems that the prosecution's evidence, even if believed completely by the jury, does not satisfy all the elements of the charge, a directed verdict will issue. I had it happen only once. A 21-year old man, Jamie, was charged with burglary for allegedly breaking into a closed bar and stealing bottles of booze. A week after the bottles were missing, a woman told the owner that Jamie hosted a party where the owner's missing alcohol was served. The owner checked out Jamie's trash, which was set on the curb for garbage collection, and discovered a dozen or so of his bottles. At trial the woman testified that Jamie had told her that there was alcohol, stolen from the owner, being served. On cross she said there were at least 100 people at the party and that most of the guests brought bottles. The house was filled with many guests when she arrived, and she was unable to identify which bottles had actually belonged to the bar. The owner testified he identified them in the trash because they bore a unique stamp belonging to the bar. After the prosecution rested, I asked to approach sidebar, and the judge said to make my motion from the counsel table. I paused because this type of motion is to be made outside of the jury, but the judge said, "You want a directed verdict, don't you?" At that point I knew he was going to grant it, so I made the motion in open court. Judges typically don't like taking cases from the jury, but the facts justified this instance. Also, the defense may make a motion for judgment notwithstanding the verdict after a jury returns a guilty verdict. If the judge determines that the evidence (viewed in a light most favorable to the prosecution)did not satisfy the elements of the offense, the verdict may be set aside. In order to make this motion the defense would have to have first asked for a directed verdict when the prosecution rested his or her case in chief. As you can imagine, these motions are rarely successful.
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