He did have the boss backing in prison. Nobody fucked with him before that incident. The problem was Gotti was too cocky and believed he was still untouchable. The ass kicking taught him that your rep will get you respect in prison, but it won't always protect you. Especially when you talk a lot of shit.

Yeah, you are probably right in regards to his rep, but I'm not sure how much actual backing Gotti had in the joint. Sure, he had his rep and his notoriety, but he didn't have any actual mob comrades or organized crime associates in the joint with him at that time. So, it wasn't like when he was out on the streets and he had bodyguards and shooters shadowing him ready to protect him in the event of any kind of attack. In Marion, Gotti was a high-profile inmate basically alone.
And the type of power that Gotti had was the type of power that can be easily revoked under certain circumstances. Gotti's power on the outside was due to his position as boss of a major organized crime family that included many killers and violent men who answered to and performed work for John Gotti. But you take a guy like that and stick him on a desert island with a group of savages, that type of power isn't going to be worth much.
In a case like that, and in a place like Marion federal prison, being physically tough and strong probably holds more weight.
Gotti was simply a middle-aged, out of shape guy surrounded by lowlifes, many of whom were probably tougher and more physical than Gotti ever was.

The John Gotti book called Mob Star (one of the best mob books ever written) talks about this. More less the black dude snuck Gotti and got several punches in. Not really a fight. A big bounty was put on the black guys head (over a million dollars) that he had to be moved out of the prison to another location. After he go released from jail he went into hiding

I cant understand it. Theres a lot of hate for john on this thread its sounds personal

Like others mentioned before, prison is just an entire different world. Carmine Persico got punked in jail a few years back (Capeci wrote about it) where a black inmate threw water on him in front of other made guys who were with carmine cause the black guy was sitting in carmine's usual spot and didnt want to move.

Actually , i heard that he had went on to kill a cop upon being released.

I'm just saying regardless or the backing you have in prison, a good rep in prison will take you far. Despite popular perception, most prisoners DO have respect for each other if they prove worthy. However, that's only if you show no signs of weakness and don't mess around with other inmates. The second you start messing with with someone else, they are going to come at you because they have something to prove and they don't want to be seen as a punk. Then you are in a world of trouble. Especially an old guy like Gotti. Despite having no backing, his rep was as big as they come. So prisoners showed respect (I'm sure his ability to put out bounties also helped). Gotti started causing trouble and that respect meant nothing anymore. That black prisoner had to fight back. Gotti got what was coming to him.

It wasnt a sneak attack gotti got his ass handed to him

I couldn't agree more with this entire post, especially the last three sentences. In prison the "tough guys" actually have to be tough guys.

I heard different and even if that was the case. A dude in his 20's can't really brag about beating someone in a fight that's about 30 years older then him. If they were both in their 20's I would drop a big bet on Gotti winning

He needed his ass kicked I'm sure he ruined a lot of good rackets for the Gambino's that were exposed due to to his management style.

gotti was a tough guy no doubt but you make him out to be mike tyson or something lol

Gotti deserved the a** kicking and then some for having his neighbor John Favara killed. All the other stuff, the gambling, the loansharking, etc., is easier to overlook, but killing an innocent civilian like that because your kid was reckless on a motorbike -- that was pure evil! Too bad Gotti didn't live another 20 years in the squalid conditions of Marion.

Couldn't agree more as far as i know the guy hasn't been identified but people are willing to bet on his defeat to the young JG.

An article on walter johnsons later arrest for the cop killing.

http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/articles/A26112-2004Jul29.html

The guy was a violent felon from Philadelphia. He sounded like a bit of a nutcase, so it's not surprising that he wasn't impressed by John Gotti's reputation. The comments on the article below are quite comical; some people take things pretty seriously.

http://anthonyj33.hubpages.com/hub/The-Day-John-Gotti-Got-Beat

anybody who would kill a cop has to be somewhat of a nutcase at a minimum IMO

good Point also there has never been any evidence to suggest gotti personally killed anybody. sure he ordered many murders but i dont think he has ever carried out a killing by himself

I don't think Gotti was weak physically or in fights, I don't see where even guys who turned on him said anything like that. I believe inmate Johnson went nuts and attacked him, based on talking to corrections officer I know (my brother, and other family members) Gotti had been in prison before, I think in 1977, wouldn't a coward reputation would have followed him onto streets ?

Yeah this. Gotti was like 5'9 ok he was broad but he's not some invincible tough guy, probably considered tough more on his reputation and the fact he had the power to have you killed. I guess this guy didn't give a fuck who John Gotti was, there's always someone tougher than you who can give you a beating.

Exactly. Even Paul Castellano was feared because he had the power to have you killed since he had the demeo crew and the westies at his disposal

Good point think of how feared Nicky Scarfo was considering the amount of murders he ordered and he was more or less a tiny skinny guy.

LOL I remember seeing a profile on a New Jersey banned casino list of Joey Merlino, listed him at 105 pounds and about 5'3, now how do you think he would go in a fist fight haha.

Don't always matter how small you are. It matters how good of a fighter you are. Yea I know guys like Scarfo, Merlino and Gotti were not big linebacker types but I'll take them guys against an average street thug in a fair fight anyday. I also believe Scarfo had a very short try at boxing so he knows how to throw. Hey look at MMA, I see guys who are like 110 pounds and I bet they could win in a fight against the average 200 street thug. Don't matter how big you are. It matters how good of a fighter you are.

Its true but did Merlino have a reputation for being a fighter or anything? I know Gotti did when he was a kid.

in prison doesn't matter your reputation for being a fighter but more your reputation to have you killed inside or outside prison
people like gotti have good possibility to have you killed outside prison

Agreed. There is always going to be someone tougher than you, no matter how tough a guy you are. I'm not sure height has anything to do with it; 5'9" is average height, so Gotti wasn't a midget. Tyson is like 5'10" at best, and he was knocking over guys 6'3", 6'4". A lot of good fighters were not tall but tough and strong.
But yeah, a lot of Gotti's tough guy reputation stemmed from his violent past and his ability and wherewithal to have a guy clipped. But from all the reading I've done, I do know that John Gotti was a tough guy who didn't mind getting violent, unlike so-called tough guys like Paul Castellano or Carlo Gambino, two guys who probably couldn't break an egg in a fight, but nonetheless could have you killed.

Yeah, Gotti had been in prison in the late 60s as well. He always seemed to be the kind of guy who didn't mind getting physical if needed. In '84 he got into that fracas with the refrigerator mechanic who was upset that Gotti's friend, Frank Colletta, had double-parked and was blocking the street.
John Gotti and his brother Gene looked like typical throwback bruiser types!

Well to be honest Scarfo was probably more feared because he actually killed people personally.

gotti killed sure personally too