ms-13 is mostly formed by salvadorians not mexicans it's not at all a mexican mafia affiliated gang

i think in new york prisons the mob has influence and gangs not hurt them i heard they even did recently ceremony initiations inside those prisons
same in new jersey and other north-eastern prisons

It is a mexican mafia gang. They maybe salvadoran, but they are still a hispanic gang that originated in LA and they still gotta survive in prison.Not only that but they pay respect to eme by use of the number 13.

Also there are alot of north eastern prisons and correctional facilities so maybe the mob has some influence in a few but i dont think its wide spread or anywhere near the extent that the mexican mafia does.

They've been a major force for some time now.

Obviously anyone can attack anyone in or out of prison. My point is Le Eme are the biggest, baddest prison gang. No doubt they will retaliate (I'd put my money on them winning, too), but the fact that the Asians even dared to challenge La Eme is surprising. Could this mean there is a crack in La Eme's power? It will be interesting to see what develops.

^^^^ Asians are getting tougher they'll hiss at you!

Prison violence is a sort of tit for tat game. The southern mexicans have the numbers and organisation, but thats not gonna stop the other groups from defending themselves. Also the prison goes into lockdown after incidence like this so its not like there able to freely walk around stabbing each other. It actually requires a bit of planning especially an organised assault like the ones the asians did. If the prisons in lockdown it makes business that much harder to do.

I think you've nailed it right there. The thing is, what you will often see when they show the videos of these showdowns in the joint is one tiny guy trying to fight a guy twice his size.

That guy must have balls you must be thinking. Well, yeah, kind of but this guy also knows that any signs of weakness make him an easier target amongst his own crew. So he really has no choice but to fight. If you fail to throw down you become the scrapings of the barrrel, the low of the low whereas at least if you play the game you can at least enjoy a degree of comfort within your own clique.

When a showdown happens there's nowhere to run, nowhere to hide. If you try and get returned to your crew you will be finished as far as the joint is concerned and may be in danger of getting green lighted for a hit.

If you have a crew you can either try to hold it together whilst the bigger crew tracks you down one by one or you can get your retaliation in first and consolidate your power base. I think I remember one time in Marion in Illinois that at one time the whites were heavily outnumbered in one particular section of the joint.

Now they were filming these 4 or 5 white guys who were getting picked off at every opportunity yet still kept on fighting the war even though they were ridiculously outnumbered. In the end the Mexicans stormed the 3 or 4 of them that were left and the authorities hospitalised them and moved them from the wing. No matter how bad the odds they still had to fight until the inevitable happened.

That's prison politics and it sucks if you have to fight these wars on the losing side or against the greater numbers but the alternative in being shunned by your own group is even worse and you lose any status whatsoever.

Either move is dangerous but either way the Asians are going to remain green light targets for the Mexicans. Nothing is going to change that fact. They did the right thing. They weren't going to get anywhere rolling over and the top Asian gang members would lose their credibility and become targets in a power play from within themselves if it began to look like they couldn't provide protection for their people.

But these Asians would have been in more danger if they had not of carried out this attack because they were obviously backed into a corner and a deal wasn't on the table. Either the Mexicans were asking for too much or they were looking to wipe out their hierachy altogether. As they have got their retaliation in first they will be safer for the time being and at least have a temporary respite as this has given them a buffer zone from

1) The Mexicans who will have to bide their time for a while at least and most likely be frustrated for a while, having to settle with picking off the odd Asian straggler or two until all the fuss has died down. The weaker Asian inmates, especially the innocent ones are most at danger now.

2) Most of all from the Asians themselves. The most dangerous place to get whacked is in your own cell or amongst your own kind where petty feuds, powerplays and also punichment beatings and stabbings are carried out to keep gang members in check. Any Asian gang member who didn't comply with this attack would have received a severe punishment beating from their own before the Mexicans got to them.

They had everything to gain and nothing to lose. You back any animal into a corner and they become dangerous. Human nature is the same too. I remmeber one white ex-con who was tough but not a gang member who told me that he'd always give a rival the option of meeting him half-way as even the most cowardly punk can be dangerous when given a fight or die choice.

The Mexcicans may have the numbers and be the most organised group in prison. That doesn't make them the only game in town. As long as there are rival gangs in prison they are always going to remain legitimate targets.

interview with a white prison gang member, gives a good insight.
http://www.gorillaconvict.com/dirty-white-boys-2/

That thing with Stanfa was Philly shit, even if Geo was from Chicago. The Dirty White Boys put a hit out on him cos he went nuts and tried to put a hit out on 'Nick The Greek', one of the biggest meth handlers in Philly around the time alot of Philly guys from the North East and all over town were going down for that shit.

Nick Geo payed some guys to throw 'Nick The Greek' a beating but he took all three of them out in his cell. Then it got kind of fucked and Nick The Greek thought it was Stanfa who ordered the hit because Nick Geo had put the finger on him. Nick The Greek had reason to believe Stanfa may have had a hand in it too, him being tight with Merlino and all.

Anyway, eventually this is why the Dirty White Boys threw Geo a beating and sliced him up pretty bad. He crawled to the guards for help. He was a kind of fantacist who thought he was a real badass. not in a wannabe way but in a whack job kinda sense. He thought he had the right to take care of Geo without Stanfa's authority cos he was Greek and he considered himself a Greek Mafia shot caller.

Guy was cracked but no-one was convicted even though the Feds tried to push it.

I never knew Chicago had a 'Greek Mafia'. I knew there were/are lots and lots of Greeks active, but I always thought they were mostly associates of Cosa Nostra not really a seperate organization. At least not in Chicago

There is a small Greek community in the Near West Side traditionally Greektown but most have moved out to the suburbs. Businesses are still there. Nothing like the North East though.

In Chicago they payed their tribute to the Outfit like anyone else. Typical Greek guys in Chicago are on the fringe good example of your typical Greek guy would be someone like Nick "the Salesman" Valentzas, business owners who work in tandem with the Outfit and allow them to use their businesses for mettings, scams and other local rackets in the Greek community. When Gus Alex died I think the Greeks relationship with the Outfit nosedived and around 2001 as they faded out of the picture a bit like they did in Philly and NY. Gus Alex was considered a kind of boss for the Greek associates in the Greek community.

The Greeks have alot of restaurants, Cafes and businesses and they allow the Outfit a cut of the cards and craps games that they're allowed to run in the city.

Gus Alex was a high ranking associate of the Outfit who was aslso the figurehead for the Greeks in Chicago but the connections between the Greeks and their restaurants/businesses etc... has the same kind of working relationship and alliance with the Outfit in Chicago as their counterparts do in Philly.

The Greek mob has connections in Chicago for sure but they generally had to answer to the Outfit and it was always a game of cat and mouse with the Outfit putting their foot down and trying to get more and the Greeks doing their own shit and giving up as less as they could.

But they're around, scratching a living like anyone else. I think they have ties to East European crooks. The Russians are big time in Chicago but not so much the Greeks. The Russians use their retaurantsand bars alot too. The Greeks hate Albanians with an almost unhealthy passion. It's like ridiculous. I think the Greeks are pretty well connected to the Greeks and families on in Chicago and the East Coast but on their own pretty small in Chicago.

It wasn't an act of delf-defense. Initial reports is that they instigated the fight.

Also, Surenos or Southern Mexicans are not the same as La Eme. Surenos are the hispanic gangs in Southern California that pay respect and taxes to La Eme gang, though there are some gangs that are directly tied to La Eme like Tortilla Flats. MS-13 is considered a Sureno gang but La Eme members are small in numbers.

I think there are somewhere between 200 and 300 La Eme member max. I think that this is really the maximum number to maintain a good organization.

But the report didn't say anything about the Asians being under threat in the first place. if that was the case, then everything you said is correct. It's either get attacked or attack first and wait for the retalation. It's really a lose-lose situation. Unless you're really diplomatic and can form a truce.

The guy in the video said that the two groups were having meetings before the assault. Relations broke down and violence was inevitable, any action against a group the size of the surenos by a much smaller inmate population such as the asians is self defence. Different rules apply in prison im afraid.