Then maybe YOU should be held accountable (for not securing a weapon good enough).

Don't know if you guys heard about or saw the interview with the teacher who locked her students in a closet/bathroom. Very emotional touching interview. She made sure she told the kids she loved them, because she didn't want the gunfire to be the last thing they heard.


TIS




http://abcnews.go.com/WNT/video/connecti...udents-17978970

Horrible tragedy reminds me of Dunblane

Rip to all who died except the scumbag killer

How bout restricting violent music, movies, television & video games that have become such a major part of our effed-up culture?
I'll gladly trade my sword in for a ploughshare but it takes much more.

We seriously need to stop blaming this. If we do that, then might as well get rid of religion since that cost thousands of deaths as well.

we have them locked up in gun cabinets. But what is the protol call if weapons are stolen and used in a crime?

This is what I don't understand why do we blame video games,tv,movies,music,guns? What about blaming the assholes who are committing these shootings?

This is truly horrifying. Those poor kids. My heart goes out to them and their families.

All the arguments about guns don't kill people, people do and what about knives are simply wrong, because nothing can kill people as fast as a person armed with guns. How many could he have killed with a knife before he would've been stopped?

Gun control and stricter background checks might prevent these crimes in far away future, but already too many guns have been sold to public anyway. Plus, if someone can bring themselves to go and kill kids, they probably are messed up enough to wait a couple of days to get the guns. There's not going to be an easy and effective solution for this problem.

I'm going to Sesame Place today with my grandkids. I go with a heavy heart to think of the parents and grandparents who won't get to experience these joys. I'll also be looking around wondering if some nut is going to open fire on the crowd. Jeez, what a screwed up society (and world) we live in. No love, no respect, lowered values and then we have guns to assist the nut jobs who have evil designs.

Give them a hug for me, MC.

Horrible, horrible, horrible...

When signing up on these boards, I promised my self never to talk politcs on here. But I have to say that I agree with those who say there is a serious need for a change in the constitution. I would even go as far as saying that all firearms should be banned! I may be naive, but most of us, overhere (in Europe), can´t really understand the fascination and worship of firearms many of you Americans have.

RIP all you little ones. My mind goes out to all the victims and their families.

Horrible, horrible, horrible...

That's a brilliant and heartfelt post, Hairy. You should post in the political threads more often .

Is the genie out of the bottle?
I don't think that there are significantly more mentally ill in the US than elsewhere, but there are definitely more people killed by semi-automatic handguns.
http://andrewhammel.typepad.com/german_j...thing-else.html

For the sake of "real" conversation on guns (which nationally I don't think will ever happen, but maybe here on the BB it will happen), I found this "rebuttle" to pro-gun arguments. It is interesting. In particular, I'm curious as to whether our legal experts (Kly, DT,Oli)agree with this particular argument.


The Constitution says I have a right to own guns.

Yes it does, but for some reason gun advocates think that the right to bear arms is the only constitutional right that is virtually without limit. You have the right to practice your religion, but not if your religion involves human sacrifice. You have the right to free speech, but you can still be prosecuted for incitement or conspiracy, and you can be sued for libel. Every right is subject to limitation when it begins to threaten others, and the Supreme Court has affirmed that even though there is an individual right to gun ownership, the government can put reasonable restrictions on that right.


http://prospect.org/article/ten-argument...zSeQz8B.twitter


TIS

I prefer to let all the facts come through before we prescript political solutions. Or counter-spinning over an outdated, ill-fitted Amendment for the 21st Century America. (Like that one banning the government from making citizens house soldiers.) I won't comment (if at all) until then. Knowing America, we'll lose interest in this story within a week in favor of Kim Kardashian's big (beautiful) ass again.

Consider that one report out there that the alleged shooter's mother legally owned those guns, but didn't leave them locked. Whether that's true or Internet BS passed off as news, we'll find out. (Hey remember when news actually investigated news and not just copy off blogs?)

But from the reports I've read, I got a broad question to ask: Why are Assault Weapons legal to buy?

That's something I just don't understand. It's one thing to buy a handgun or even a shotgun I suppose for home/self defense, but this is America. We're not Syria or Mexico where you need such hardware to protect yourself from armed bandits or rebels/government thugs. Crime has gone done in America steadidly for decades. WHO ARE YOU AFRAID OF?

My fellow BB.Neters who live in the NYC/NJ region, or any Metropolitan area for that matter, do you own one? Do you feel like you need one to feel safe from the streets? For that matter, why do rural area rednecks (who would have more a practical use for some guns than urban residents) need that much firepower to save themselves from Gophers? Jesus in East Tennessee, as damn redneck as you possibly can be, you know what the greatest local danger is? The random Meth head, the rare occassional robbery/murder. How rare? I'm sure for the Tri-Cities (where I live) to match up just the NYC area's murder rate per month, it'll take about 20 years. That might be too conservative.

President Clinton in '94 signed a 10 year ban on assault weapons, which the GOP Congress in '04 didn't renew. I had no problems with that ban. Never once have I heard a convincing argument for not renewing it.

It's one thing to accept the principle of ownership of guns, since we are stuck with that Constitutional Amendment. But it's another to believe it has no limits, which is both foolish, wreckless, and just wrong. The above poster's link is correct, it's the only Amendment that gets this treatment.

The first Amendment doesn't allow you to scream FIRE! in a movie theatre. If you falsely do and somebody gets hurt/killed, guess what? You're going to jail.

Amendments that gave the right to vote to 18 year olds and beyond, women, and black citizens are null and void when said eligible voters commit crimes which strip them of their voting rights.

The 4th Amendment, protection against unlawful search and seizure, is superceded by the Patriot Act, which is still in effect until no longer renewed. (Which is never.)

The SCOTUS ruled in Lincoln's right to suspend Habeaus Corpus, guaranteed by the 5th Amendment, during the Civil War.

And so forth.

That's the best post you've ever written, Ronnie.

Very strong point, SC. Many gun crimes can be traced back to burglars who stole guns that weren't secured, or family members and friends who knew where unsecured guns were. All shooting classes emphasize and re-emphasize responsibility as well as rights--and especially the need to keep firearms safe and secure.

Stay classy, Huckabee. You douchebag.

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2012/12/14/mike-huckabee-school-shooting_n_2303792.html

first off, i strongly believe that every school should have at least one police officer there full time, a great first step as far as either stopping the threat outright or limiting the potential damage. there is something to be said about keeping weapons secure though, but that comes down to the individual. plently of details will come to light in the next few days, but who's to say the guy didn't tie his mother up and force her to hand over the guns? seeing as how crazy he was, thats not out of the realm of possibility.

education is also the key, so for everyone who calls to ban guns, or is in favor of more restrictive gun laws, fine you have a right to your opinion, but first educate yourselves on what the current gun laws already in place are. conneticut is far from a so called "gun friendly" state. there are waiting periods, as well as mandatory training for people who wish to own handguns. i own 2 guns, a shotgun and a .22 rifle, far from what are considered "assault weapons", although they still have the ability to cause damage. guess what, never had a single problem ever, but i also don't advertise that i own anything outside of an anynomous forum for the simple fact that not much good comes from that. its very hard to stop "crazy", and there are many different opinions on how to do so. these are just my opinions, but they are just as valid as anybody elses.

On that note:

In Tennessee since it feels like forever, the state GOP have been trying to legalize the right to carry a concealed gun into a bar.

You know, bars where people tend to overdrink and which booze has a habit of inhibiting one's logic and control over impulsive, rash decisions. Yes add guns to that environment.

Why are these people against Common Sense?

RR,

I remember hearing about that law and thought it was already in effect. You mean some sane minds might actually be thinking it over? It just blows me away that one would even consider it but I agree, wouldn't common sense tell you guns/alcohol/bars don't mix?

Also, tho I really don't know the details, I hear Gov. Synder of MI signed a bill just a day or two ago or so, allowing guns at schools.

I am not hopeful that any precautions (and God forbid restrictions) with gun laws will prevail, even after yesterday's tragedy but I also refuse the to accept that NOTHING can be done.

TIS

Re-read what I wrote. I never said anything about banning non-assault weapons. I wasn't talking about this particular news story, or that state's particular gun laws. But you're upset none the less. Not crazy, but mad regardless.

This is something gun folks love to do (and gun control people do as well), change the topic from a speciality fine point and instead talk about all guns as equal or all should be treated as such, or whatever simplified nonsense.

Again, why do people need to own assault weapons? We're not talking guns or shotguns. We're talking assault weapons. Why the need to own them? We're not having a brutal civil war like Syria, where an alleged 40,000 people have been killed so far (by a tyrant and his revolting opposition), and well local common sense dictate you get armed to save yourself. Is there a civil war up in New England I don't know about? Are those Hartford hockey fans still mad about their Whalers moving away

Besides your "education" cover defense is bull. How long have we been educating people that they shouldn't drink and drive? Yet it's still banned. How long, and with how much taxpaper money, have we told the public not to use pot or heroin and coke and meth and so forth? Yet they're still illegal. If anything I suppose assault weapons are like cigarettes. No fucking use, no reason to buy/use smokes (Pot at least arguably has the painkiller/glacoma medical cover) yet they're still legal. And people buy them.

OK people like cigarettes, they're addicted to them or enjoy smoking them. You can argue that. With assault weapons....again, why?

In general, moving away from my assault weapons rant, I'm neither for gun rights abolition or an unrestricted 2nd Amendment. I'm for common sense.

And god dammit that's truely sorely lacking in America today.

It might've. I don't tend to pay attention to state politics anymore because (1) It's depressing, (2) does that proposed measure (now law?) sound like it was written up by smart, responsible people elected by smart, responsible voters? Interestingly recently somebody named the Tennessee State Legislature the WORST in the country as the most useless.

For example, Nashville loves to pass their resolutions. 70% of all the measures they passed are resolutions, specifically non-binding resolutions. Translation: They aren't worth a bucket of warm piss, and have as much power as the Queen of England. Yup Nashville definately deserved that award.



Nothing is going to happen. Everybody is afraid of the NRA's political influence. Then again consider reading what those folks think about Obama, and they swear that ANY MINUTE he'll take their guns away. Even though he's done absolutely jack shit on the matter, they truely believe he's going to abolish the Constitution and cede power away to the United Nations or whatever nutjob conspiracy junk they always cite.

(U.N. having real power? HA! In what Twilight Zone alternate reality are we living in where that Third World soapbox has that much influence?)

Oh wait the one thing they hate about Obama was those gun stings he's had the government deploy to try to stop weapons from getting smuggled into Mexico, into the hands of those Drug Cartels. (One of them going south was the source of that "Fast & Furious" scandal against Attorney General Holder in recent years.) Why does the NRA hate such anti-crime measures? Why are they against Common Sense?

Beats the shit out of me.

I think teachers should be allowed to carry guns as well

i'm not mad, just sharing my opinion, i never claimed you or anybody else wanted to ban guns, that wasn't directed at anybody here. as far as "assault weapons", an ar15 is NOT an asaault weapon, it is a modern sporting rifle. an assault weapon, by definition, is a seletive fire weapon, meaning that it has the ability to go from semi-auto to either full auto or burst fire with the flick of a switch. to aquire one of those , there are so many hoops to go through with regards to the atf that its just not possible for ordinary citizens. you guys can attack my definition and say i'm splitting hairs, thats ok. as far as wanting to own one, they are fun, and are effective self defense weapons. yes they can be deadly, but so can any firearm.

this weird liberal mindset of "ban this make/model and crime will go away" is nonsense. people are adaptive, both for good and bad. take one away and somebody who's dead set on committing a horrible act will still find a way. there are so many bad stories about gun owners that its very frustrating, as the OVERWHELMING majority are about as respectful ,friendly and safe as any other person, from my experience. the thing that gets me, is while we hear, and we should, about guns being used to commit horrific crimes, the flipside is rarely true, as many lives are saved by guns in the right hands.

Reminds me of that movie CLASS OF 1984 when biology science teacher Roddy McDowall, mentally pushed over the cliff by a ruthless violent school gang and indifferent students, grabs a gun and holds the whole class hostage, threatening to pull the trigger if they fail to answer his questions correctly.

All students should also wear kevlar. Let the state pay for them.

So now there was a shooting in a hospital in Alabama. Luckily, only the gunman was killed, a police officer and two hospital employees injured.

All doctors/nurses should be allowed to carry guns too. Guards should be given grenades too. Just in case...

Oh yes, by all means. Any weapon, any time anywhere by anybody is perfectly acceptable BECAUSE I have 2nd amendment rights and can blow anyone to shit.

Maybe yesterday wouldn't have happened had those innocent little kids had guns on them. These are my emotions today:



TIS

Yeah, it's like Archie said. To avoid skyjackings, arm your passengers.