Horrible, TIS! So glad my girls are home for the semester!

This is so sad. Boy's favorite teacher cradles him as both get killed. Parents say this boy liked the teacher so much that there was a picture of her on the fridge.


TIS

http://usnews.nbcnews.com/_news/2012/12/...n-her-arms?lite

Funeral after funeral after funeral. They're all going to be buried over the next week. How do you survive something like that?

Deaths from firearms are set to outstrip car fatalities for the first time, according to data from the Centers for Disease Control and reported by Bloomberg News.

The CDC estimates that auto-related deaths--long on the decline as more motorists wear seat-belts and face harsher penalties for drunk driving--will fall to 32,000 in 2015. Deaths from firearms, which include suicides and accidents, are estimated to rise to 33,000 over the same period.

Every day, 85 Americans are shot dead, about 53 of them in suicides. This figure is still lower than 1993's peak in gun deaths (37,666), but has risen significantly since firearm deaths reached a low in 2000 (28,393). The data goes back to 1979.

Forget the gun debate for just a minute. Has anyone read about these scam artists looking to make a buck off of this tragedy?

They should fucking die .

http://www.dailyfinance.com/2012/12/19/newtown-shooting-tragedy-scam-artists/?ncid=webmail1

what pieces of shit

Heard about stuff like this on the radio last night. Truly revolting.

It never fails to amaze me that when tragedy strikes, it can bring out the best in people, but the other side of the coin is that out from under the rocks emerge the absolute lowest forms of human vermin.

Meanwhile, more funerals and wakes are scheduled for today.


Signor V.

Tar & Feathers anyone?

How about this?

Did anybody watch any of that NRA Press conference yesterday?

The call for cops/armed guards in schools is a good start, but merely a bandaid by itself. Couple it with the other reform measures suggested, i.e. ban assault weapons, close some Brady Bill loopholes, tighten up measures to make sure loons don't get a piece, etc.

But otherwise, Jesus Christ. I fully expected them to give cookie cutter, ameniable talk of "finding common answers to these problems" and whether they're would'be been serious about any reform (they aren't), poltiically they would've try to run out the clock and let the public lose interest and move onto another issue or news event.

Instead victimization was the name of the game. We're the real victims of this tragedy. Not all those dead kids, WE ARE! Then going off about how violent movies and video games are to blame for that tragedy. Yes because that's always (I mean never) worked for liberals whenever they try to pull that card. Remember many people at one time wanted to ban the Three Stooges because of their "violence" and kids poking each other's eyes.

Then it gets just weird.



Yes an evil conspiracy that are the REAL culprits! OK let's say this is true just for a moment. Using this logic, wouldn't you be doing everything possible to KEEP guns from people's hands and not help and enable this evil shady conspiracy? How bizarre, I'm sure for a handful of people it makes perfect sense except for the rest of us it comes off as pure gibberish and crazytalk.

Even the right wing NYP (rightfully) shit on that press conference.

I saw it and was wondering if anyone would comment on it here. Pretty shocking. I've never seen/heard anybody walk in a school armed with a movie, video game, or song and kill 28 people. GUNS though, that's another story.

The Middle school I worked for for 22 yrs. had a police officer on campus BUT he (or she) would be assigned to 3 different campuses (budget was a District issue) and wasn't there the entire day. He'd be available to us via a phone call should an emergency occur. He was uniformed, carried a gun. However, by all accounts, it seems his gun would be a cap gun as opposed to what Lanza was carrying. Plus, he'd have to be at the particular entrance a perp choose which is unlikely since the officer could be anywhere on campus. So what, we need to have our schools surrounded by guns. I don't think so.

TIS

When the Post mocks you as a Gun Nut, you've obviously dropped the ball. The guy came off as a robotic spokesperson, plain and simple. And I love how he wants to ban video games. Isn't it funny how he'd piss all over the First Amendment to protect the Second?

PB

I thought the same thing. For him (and others) it's all about the 2nd amendment but SCREW the first amendment.

Seriously, as much as I expected the NRA to NOT blame guns, I would have expected him to come off a bit more sympathetic and willing to at least reach out a bit. He came off as very cold/uncaring.

TIS

NRA really punked out, as we used to say when I was a kid. First they shut down their social media for five days. Then LaPierre made his statement and walked off, refusing to take questions. They were not only afraid--they acted guilty, as if all the criticisms of the NRA came home to roost in the CT massacre.

That said, if it were feasible to put one or more armed guards in schools, that'd be a lot more effective than simply banning assault weapons and high-capacity mags. There are 3 million AR-15's in circulation--and they aren't the only assault rifles in peoples' hands. And, a reinstated ban also wouldn't affect the high-cap mags already in circulation, and those made before a ban went into place.

My fear is that well-meaning people will enact gun controls and think the problem is solved--until the next massacre. We need to look at how we diagnose, treat and report mental health issues--pro and con. And, even if you don't like NRA (and I don't), we still need to address why violence is so deeply ingrained in our culture.

I hate that the result of this tragedy is going to be a knee jerk reaction against guns.

I couldn't and still can't stand to watch the news. It just seems like hey let's milk this tragedy for all it's worth! Instead of anyone actually caring. And the night it happened people started in about the gun debate.

I am very pro-gun and all, but there is a reason I only had an NRA membership once. It's crazy extremist propaganda instead of an intelligent, sane, organization about firearms. The Obama fear mongering flyers were really bad turn-offs. But now he's pushing for fun control, so..

i was far from impressed with the response of the nra, but lets be honest, there wasn't really much they could say and not have people jump all over them. i actually thought it was wise to remain quiet for a few days, rather than start trying to further their agenda like all the other groups seemed to do. the problem is, with an organization as big as them that represents so many different people as they do, its always gonna be an uphill battle to get across the thoughts of everybody associated with them the same as any other large political group/lobby.

I don't know why LaPierre stated anything. He should have conveyed his sympathies and donated money on behalf of the NRA. It's less than 2 years until the next Congressional elections and LaPierre's statements will have an effcet on them.

Interesting enough I never heard about this before.

LaPierre's remarks 17 years ago after the Oklahoma City bombing disgusted Former President George H.W. Bush enough to resign his lifetime N.R.A. membership.



http://beingliberal.tumblr.com/post/3855...ional-rifle-ass

From a firearms expert, anti gunners read this

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I hate to use the title of expert but to give it a heading I thought I'd use it cause that's what the Federal and local courts recognize me as.

I have well over 25 years experience as an firearms and tactics instructor for the largest law enforcement agency in the world. I spent 11 of those years as Senior instructor in charge of its swat team and the dignitary protection unit and the rest of my time training recruits. street cops, federal law enforcement agencies and special ops branches of the military. I'm giving you my background because I'm not some news reporter, actor, politician or bleeding heart hoping for the world to love each other. I'm a professional whose job has been teaching people to shoot someone mostly in a close quarter battle.

I don't think that someone with mental problems should have access to firearms. Nor do I think someone who is having domestic problems should have a firearm in their home. This is something that is taught to police officers by their instructors during the weapons safe guarding course. they are better off leaving the guns at work in their lockers. A civilian has to use common sense and make a decision on what to do. they cant leave it in their locker. Having a firearm may be a right but you have to be responsible.

I'm not going to call them assault rifles cause that's not what they are. Semi automatic rifles that bear the features of a real assault rifle have been labeled as such to get a rise out of the clueless public by the media and politicians who are boosting their egos and pockets with this agenda. They say you will be safer if these weapons become illegal, BULLSHT. So they get rid of them but leave low capacity weapons alone. I can still inflict the same damage with carrying one gun and reloading or have several guns on me. If I don't want to do that I can use the stuff that killed 168 people in the Oklahoma bombing. Think of it, how stupid is it to make a gun illegal cause it has a flash suppressor or a folding stock. The weapon works the same as it did when the stock was wood but it doesn't have that hollywood look. Weapons, drugs and anything else will always be gotten on the black market. Look at what a team of guys did to our country with box cutters, they changed the way we live.

Some will say that you should have a psych test prior to owning a firearm. I'm not a doctor, I'm sure that you'll catch some crazies that way but in my job some have slipped through. We have murder suicides happen, cops that become criminals, contract killers, we even have one that's being investigated as a possible serial killer who wanted to eat his victims. I guess the doctors missed that one.

The NRA came out with a statement saying that schools should have armed security or police. Anti gunner bloomberg says that it's foolish but what he doesn't tell the public is that he has 350 cops assigned to the bad schools around the city. Then you have the news reporters who act like they have my background giving advice on proper tactics for the schools and in the home. How foolish is that.

The media and the politicians cause people to freak out and run to gun stores clearing the shelves out. Those people know that the GOV. isn't going to be in their homes protecting them when the bad guy comes in. The GOV are protected by a 24 hour protection detail that are armed to the teeth with weapons that would make your eyes pop out if you saw them. But the public are told by politicians who are not firearms trainers that they don't need such weapons to protect themselves, only they can have them. so this is the gun that I will let you have. Gee thanks, whats the bad guy carrying. Police around the country complained that they wanted semi auto handguns to combat the bad guys because they felt out gunned. How about you.

People post stats of gun crime reduction as a result of a ban in the USA and abroad. Don't be so quick to buy into it. My department has been twisting figures for years to make themselves look good. What's down played are the times people have saved themselves or someone else cause that would make the politicians freak. they don't want people arming themselves.

I've heard this time and again that if you have a gun in the house for protection it's going to be used on you. I just heard firearms instructor Bloomberg saying this on the news this evening. How dare he tell someone to stand there and be a victim without fighting back. Everyone has the right to defend themselves. If you feel that you don't want a gun fine. If you think your alarm will save you great or the lights that you have around the house give you that warm feeling of safety enjoy. I'll use deadly physical force as it's defined by the state of NY penal law. Then I'll turn on the lights.

Why no link?

What a load of crap. How about the fact that if you have a gun in your home, it is 17 times more likely to be used in a suicide, homicide or accidental shooting than in self-defense? Or is that one of those "statistics" that are slanted?

I'm not against guns by any means. I come from a family of hunters and I believe that people should have the right to legally own guns if they want to hunt, or feel the need to protect themselves. However, high-capacity magazines and assault weapons should be banned. These are military style weapons and the only people who should ever have them are the military or law enforcement. They have no place in the general population.

These shootings keep happening, and with increasing frequency, and with higher and higher body counts. You know what that tells me? That the current system doesn't work. And when it's broke you need to fix it.

You don't need a gun for violence. On the same day as the shooting in Ct. school a man broke into a school in China and used a knife to cut, slash, and dismember 22 students. Here is the big question??? Was it the knife or the man that committed the violence..

Do These Mass Shootings Really Only Happen in America?

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The Top Five Worst Gun (Single Shooter) Mass Shootings:

1) Anders Breivik Norway 7/22/2011 77 killed, 151 wounded.

2) Woo Bum-Kon S. Korea 4/26/1982 57 killed, 35 wounded.

3) Martin Bryant Australia 4/28/1996 35 killed, 21 wounded.

4) Seung-Hui Cho USA 4/16/2007 32 killed, 25 wounded.

5) Campo Delgado Columbia 12/4/86 30 killed, 15 wounded.

http://www.top5ofanything.com/index.php?h=db8a4490

Madness is not something particular to America. It can and does happen anywhere.

The absolute most any law can do is make it slightly more difficult for a given individual to get certain tools, so a law banning X could well result in the killer using Y, which might be even more deadly in effect. (can't easily -or cheaply- get an "assault weapon, so use a bomb, or gasoline and a match....etc..)

We cannot read minds. There is no way to determine who is going to snap, or when. Some give hints, or clues, but by no means all do. And recognizing those clues for what they are, BEFORE a violent act is committed is seldom possible.

There is no easy fix, and world history seems to show that there is really no "fix" at all, at least not so long as mankind remains what we are. The only thing I am certain about, is that no gun control law (or any kind of law) will prevent it happening again, somewhere, sometime.

And the people telling us that it will, or that "if it saves just one..." are either woefully ignorant, or deliberately lying to us, and themselves.

Quibbling over the definition of an assault weapon is silly. All it does is deflect attention from the issue at hand.

Here's an idea: "Assault weapon" or not, if it repeats and repeats and repeats, you know, like a "machine gun" in the old time war movies, then a private citizen has no fucking business owning such a weapon. And if Obama (a man who I was more than a little disappointed with in his first term) finds a way to deregulate them and strikes a victory against the NRA, then I hope it defines his Presidency. I'll never criticize him again.

Fuck the NRA, their screwball President and their Second Amendment obsessed supporters. And again, I legally own three guns with licenses in both Florida and New York State. But no one needs an assault, er, scratch that, no one needs a weapon that repeats and repeats and repeats.

Very interesting Rant my friend... I hear your opinion loud and clear even with the foul words, which I usally find are use by people far to often these days.

Be a friend and calmly tell me what firearms you own and why you have them and of course if you ever had to use them for the reason you thought you needed them for. Do yopu carry everyday? and if so why?

Not looking to debate here, just looking for some background from you since you keep saying that you own guns.
I always like to know a little bit about the person so I can judge better.

You really seem to dislike the NRA. I see that thousands and thousand have joined the NRA these last few days since the talk of firearm bans.
Do you think they are trying to send a message of support in keeping their rights to hold these arms?

All suppliers are reporting record sales of all types of weapons and amo sales are through the roof. Included in these long lines are Police and other department agents who also want to get something in case of a ban. Why do you feel it is so important for so many to want or need these weapons?

I know that this issue is hotter then a boiling pot with the lid steaming.

If you look on some law enforcemnet blogs or real gun sites, you will find very few rants, but very good posts by people who can talk about these subjects and take it very serious.

I hope to see more of this on here.

BTW. I understand you served in our profession in NY. So you have worked with the families who have lost loved ones due to these type of crimes, gangs, drugs and suicides. It is never easy sitting down with them and getting them through the worst times of their lifes.

Be safe and take care of one another.

pizzaboy is a good guy, so don't be too hard on him. the problem i have, is if they didn't have the "assault weapons" boogyman to work with here, they would have just as easily substituted handguns. thats they problem with liberals on the gun issue. they claim to not want to "take all your guns", but if modern sporting rifles are banned and something happens with a handgun, they will become the next target. ditto for shotguns, until all we are left with is bolt-action rifles that are required by law to be locked up in a safe at all times, effectively making self defense impossible. who even needs them, only black powder should be permitted for hunting, even though the 2nd amendment has nothing at all to do with hunting.

i get frustrated with people on this topic, but i'm not mad as they are just doing what they think is best. unfortunatly, people often fail to grasp the bigger picture. guns are the ultimate symbol of freedom and self reliance, and once that is slowly eroded by playing on peoples emotions, then what? i hate this idea of "you don't need that". its silly at best, and dangerous at worst. although they are different things, you don't "need" a car with 400+ hp. you don't "need" a motorcycle. once the socialist healthcare goes into place, you might not "need" to go skydiving, whitewater rafting, or any of the countless other dangerous activities as might be deemed such by the government. governments all throughout history are about one thing, control, ours is no different. i try not to focus on the "what ifs", but you always have to keep in mind these extremes when making decisions.

i try not to pay much attention at all to any gun statistic, because they are so easily manipulated, but i think turnbull said there are something like 3 million ar style rifles in circulation. a few people make dumb decisions with said rifles, and the knee-jerk reaction is to ban all of them? sound logic right there.

where are all these so called "liberals" at who claim to care so much for children,when we have blown up hundreds in the past few years in pakistan under a nobel piece prize winning president?

No problem Five,
I was not being hard on anyone, just an honest post. Looking for an honest answer without any anger from either poster.

Cam,
That attack in China was mentioned here before if I'm not mistaken. The children were wounded, but they all survived. I'm pretty sure the parents in CT would have swapped with the parents in China.

When you look at gun deaths worldwide, you would have to add the deaths in Germany, Moldova, Australia, Ireland, Kyrgyzstan, Uzbekistan, India, Hungary, Cyprus, Spain, The Netherlands, Taiwan, Belarus, the UK, Poland, Singapore, Romania, Hong Kong, Mauritius, Japan, South Korea and Chile to exceed the annual gun deaths in the United States.

The question I have that nobody seems to want to address is this: Is it because they have stricter gun laws, or are Americans more inherently violent?

no matter which side of the arguement you are on, you are sure to be able to find statistics to suite your point of view. case in point, brazil. with close to 200,000,000 million people, they have had over 30,000 homicides a year depending on what stats you look at. south africa also has an extremely high amount of gun related murders and both of those countries have extremely strict firearms laws. russia, mexico, columbia, jamaica, burma, ditto for them.

i don't think that anyone would disagree that the overwhelming majority of firearms related homicides are directly related to the drugs trade, so that has to be looked at. as unpopular as it is to say, mass shootings are a very slim % of the total murders in this country, and before anybody infers i'm heartless, my mother works as a teachers aid in a school so i take these incidents very seriously.

Shame on you. Do you really think any family would wish or trade another attack on anyone?
Using any weapon at all? God help anyone believing that kind of reasoning.

How much do you really know about that attack in China. I see Not enough to know how brutal it really was or you would not have even posted anything of the sort.

Please rethink your idea on this...PLEASE