if east harlem was bullshitting,i would have sniffed it out! over the past few days we p.m.ed each other about a hundred times just 'shooting the breeze'. we have never personally met but we know who each other are. we know a lot of the same people,a lot! we both know some heavy people.and when i say 'heavy' i fucking mean it! and i dont mean 'i saw so-so in a bar once'..lol. you cant 'quote' these sources of information,so any one here can decide on there own what the truth is! just because you have indictments in front of you...does not equate truth! and yes if you were sitting were i am sitting, you look like bumbling idiot calling east harlem a bullshitter!

A guy from NYC who's from an Italian neighborhood where he sees these guys > a guy who gets info only from FBI documents

What you're doing is saying something that contradicts a ton of other evidence. And when I point this out, you and gamms immediately start with the insults and accuse me of being arrogant when all I've done is point out said evidence.

Furthermore, posters on these forums have routinely abused the "where I live thing." It's not that where someone lives can't afford them some additional knowledge. But too many posters have often gone waaaaaay overboard with it. They attribute an impossible amount of knowledge, they really couldn't have, to little more than their zip code. Somebody lived in East Harlem years ago so that somehow gives them special insight to who was running things in the Genovese family? Horse shit. What, did the Genovese family send them weekly reports?

But if we're going to go with the "where I live" thing, wouldn't Cafaro be the best source of all, since he worked with Fat Tony in that area for years? Oh wait, I guess not, 'cause he's a rat.

Except you have no idea who he is. I don't know how long you've been on these forums but I've been on them for years. The guys who claim they're from this neighborhood and are in a special position to know are legion. We're on the internet. Anyone can claim anything. And they do.

I'm not sure if the news has made it to Utah, however East Harlem is a SHITHOLE! If I wanted to make myself look cool I would have said Little Italy! Nice try though!

You would have sniffed it out? You? Who the hell are you? Answer: Just another nameless, faceless poster on the board like the rest of us. I could just as easily claim on Prince Henry. It's meaningless.

But we can all look at the mafiosi who testified in court, or talked on bugs, and see what they said.

lol! i think only the two of us [and pizza] can appreciatte how fucking hilarious this is bo!

But the matter we're discussing was taking place in East Harlem at the time.

So now you're speaking for pizzaboy? Why don't you let him speak for himself if and when he chooses to enter this discussion.

Read Gamms post. He said he knows him as well and he doesn't lie on his posts.

Don't worry, Pizza will let you know Ivey! I'm getting him involved myself! I will let him know that he is a bull shitter to because he said he's from the Bronx!

Or you can put the ego in your drawer and admit someone else here may know more than you about one topic! Just one!

It's a matter of who was the boss as a whole!

You said people make shit up about where they are from! My screen name is what I was referring too and my neighborhood

Excerpts from Five Families -

As early as April 4, 1982, Bruce Mouw's Gambino squad intercepted a telephone conversation between Angelo "Fat Ange" Ruggiero and John Gotti that strongly suggested Gigante was equal in rank to Paul Castellano. In his Long Island home, Ruggiero explained to Gotti, then his capo, "that Paul and Chin made a pact." He continued, "Any friend of ours that gets pinched for junk, they kill 'em. No administration meetings, no nothing. Just go kill him. They're not warning nobody; not telling nobody because they feel the guy's going to rat." It was an obvious reference to Castellano and Gigante imposing the death penalty on any mobster caught in narcotics trafficking. Only a godfather could unilaterally exercise that ultimate penalty, and it was proof that Chin Gigante was in command of the Genovese family.

From the Jaguar bug, State Organized Crime Task Force personnel heard Tony Ducks Corallo, the Lucchese boss, complaining on June 23, 1983, that "Chin" and "Paul" had made a Commission decision without consulting him. "What Commission?" Corallo griped. "The Commission was him (Gigante) when they okayed a guy to be killed and nobody come and told Tom (Santoro, the Lucchese underboss) and me a thing about it."

A brief segment of a bugged conversation at the Palma Boys Social Club between Tony Salerno and Matty "the Horse" Ianniello, on May 22, 1984, also failed to register properly with agents and prosecutors. Salerno and Ianniello were reviewing a list of candidates to be inducted as made men in another family. Upset that the nicknames of the proposed soldiers had not been included, which would have made it easier to identify them, Salerno said, "I don't know none of them. They don't put the nicknames down there....But anyway, I'll leave this up to the boss." Salerno's remark was a blunt admission that he was not the final arbiter of decisions in the family.

--------------------

In addition to this Salerno was cought on tape saying how "Benny" and "that guy" put him in place to do a job and if they didn't like it they could have it back. "Benny" is obviouslly Benny Squint Lombardo and "that guy" is obviously Gigante.

--------------------

VINCENT CAFARO declares, pursuant to the provisions of 28 U.S.C. § 1746, as follows:
I was "straightened out" as a made member of the Genovese Organized Crime Family in approximately 1974. Among members and associates of La Cosa Nostra, I was generally known by the nickname "Fish." Until 1986, I was Anthony "Fat Tony" Salerno's right-hand man. A photograph of Salerno and me outside the Palma Boys Social Club in East Harlem is attached as Exhibit A. After he suffered a stroke in 1981, Salerno functioned as the "figurehead" Boss of the Genovese Family, while Vincent "Chin" Gigante took over from Salerno as the "behind the scenes" Boss. However, Salerno retained control over the Genovese Family's rackets in the construction industry.

--------------------------

Sammy Gravano also stated that when the bosses met again after the Commission case Gigante basically confessed that he had been running the family all along.

Anthony Casso also confirmed this.

no,i cant speak for pizza but he can vouch that east harlem is not a 'nameless faceless poster'. but you are right i apologize for involving pizzaboy in this..forget that,if he wants to contribute his input he can.but your right i dont speak for him. personally,i think our last names make us pretty good 'authorities' when it comes to subjects on this board.not that i would post them on an open web site,but still..its funny if you see where we are coming from.lol.

Yeah, Casso and Gravano! Tony was dead, you only got points by the. If you puked on Chin!

Regarding the Castellano matter, why did Tony and Paul split Matrix and S&A Concrete if Chin was the boss?

I could go on and on with examples for days!

Commission meeting on Cameron Ave: Fat Tony, Scopo, Castellano, Gerry Lang and Ducks!

That "leave this up to the boss" was taken out of context and you know it Ivey! Tony was talking about Lombardo at that point in time, not Chin!

Gamms knows who? EastHarlemItal? So what? And it's not so much a matter of gamms lying as him ignoring the same overwhelming evidence that EastHarlemItal is.



I look forward to pizzaboy entering this discussion. You may be surprised.

And you're putting words in my mouth. I never called pizzaboy a bullshitter. He's one of the few "local guys" who has never tried to claim more than he knows. Which is why he and I have always gotten along and I respect his posts.

And there you go again making this about my ego. The facts don't support your opinion so all you have left is to make the argument about me and my "ego."



I said people exaggerate the connection of where they live to the what they know about the mob. It's not that I don't believe you lived in East Harlem. It's that you simply living there doesn't give you any special insight into who was running the Genovese family. Certainly not more than Cafaro, who worked with Fat Tony on a daily basis, or the several other mafiosi I've listed who contradict you as well.



Oh, I see. Not only are you playing the geography card, you're now playing the ethnic card as well. Your name ends in a vowel so that also gives you some sort of special insight. Does how much pasta you eat give you more knowledge about the mob as well?

So being from Utah doesn't afford you any knowledge about the area and the people? I'm from New York and I don't pretend to know your area!

Your correct Ivey. Rats ALWAYS tell the truth! Using a Rat for your information is about as naive as it gets!

guys, we all have some thing to add to the discussion, lets not let geography or personal beefs get in the way of that. i've been on these mob forums for about a year now, and the one major thing i've noticed is the abundance of bullshit artists who claim to be "street guys". for the record, i'm not discounting any of the often useful info provided here by guys who live closer to the action than some, but to take such info as "FACT" is a grave mistake.

we don't need to look any further here than that russo guy, someone who, according to him, has an inside ear on boston. some of the people here have met in person, but the majority of us are still 100% anonomous, and we should all be treated as such even if egos get dented!

for all the guys dumping on ivy, know one thing: he doesn't have a "horse in the race", and he tries to be as objective as possible. when i first joined here, i thought he was some pro-law enforcement shmuck, but the more that i read into all things OC, i got where he was coming from.

with the crazy influx of "wannabee's" on these types of sites, it really helps to have a formula when dealing with the mafia. as far as all of us are concerned, FBI and law enforcement stats are as close as we can come to "reliable"! nobody, and that includes ivy, will say that they are 100% reliable, thats just not true. what we will say however, is that going by said repoirts is an effective way to filter out all of the bullshit that is thrown around as fact on these forums!

i guess what i'm trying to say is, lets look at all the info presented, but lets not take an anonymous posters word as fact when there may be more credable sources that have conflicting info. happy new year you savages

yes!it all depend on 'where' you eat the pasta! an olive garden in provo wont do the trick buddy!lol!

east,this guy is killing me over here!

Huh?



Because they had been partners in the construction business. Cafaro testified that, even while Chin was the official boss, Fat Tony and his crew still handled most of the construction rackets.



Please do because I don't think you can.



So? Cafaro explained this. Chin didn't like going to the Commission meetings. He preferred to send Fat Tony instead. Gravano also later confirmed this when he talked about a meeting that Chin actually attended and he scolded the others about having those meetings about things like construction and what not. He said that he had put a lot of time into his crazy act and he didn't want to get picked up by surveillance or on a bug. He warned the others they would end up "paying the piper" for those meetings. It was all part of the reason for Chin staying in the background and wanting Fat Tony to conduct much of the day to day affairs of running the family.



Uh, no, I don't "know it." I know what Selwyn Raab wrote about the comment. I know that Cafaro, Gravano, and Casso all confirmed the subject. And it's just you saying it was taken out of context.

Frustrated citizen! He wishes he was Italian!

I'll buy into the above, exempt I've never played the neighborhood card!

I could tell you certain things like where to go for a good meal, what streets to avoid because of construction, etc. But that's quite different from knowing about the internal affairs of a secret criminal organization.



So Cafaro, Gravano, and Casso were all lying huh? And all the mafiosi on those bugs were also lying, huh?



You hit on a key point: I don't have a horse in this race.

For so long, people have said that me being from Utah somehow hurts the insight I have. I'd argue it's helped me far more than it's hurt me. It allows me to be more objective. It allows me to stick to the demonstrable facts and not be tossed "to and fro" by every internet forum expert claiming they know the real scoop.

As I said before, I've been on these forums for years now. And I've seen one "local street guy" after another come and go. They all claim to have the real scoop. And they all have the same reaction if you point out certain information that contradicts them. They immediately get defensive and start insulting you. They start bragging about where they come from, who they are, what they know, etc. I've seen it over and over again.

Just leaving certain items out to twist your argument again!

Little secret, most people from here are rude mother fuckers!

That's a sad social life "online for years"

What "certain items" am I leaving out? Quit just alluding to things. Actually name them.



See what I mean? You know you don't have the facts on your side your start in with the personal BS.

But, for the record, many posters have been on these forums for years. Some much longer than me. It's not ones' entire life.

What's really sad is coming on these forums and pretending be something you're not and know stuff you don't.

Seen what I mean! I've pretended to be nothing! I've stated facts and information! You get all upset when you get called to the carpet for regurgitating something you've read out of a book or a news paper! You actually get mad at "locals" there a threat to a guy like you! You get afraid your quotes may get shit down as government propaganda!

no, you haven't, but this board has been like an ashtray inviting cancer at one time or another! we have had more than our fair share of fanboys from all over, especially chicago, and after a while it can really wear thin with guys trying to present honest info. again, i'appreciate any local intel, and i'm sure everyone else does as well. the conflict imo, seems to lie where neiborhood guys present their info as fact.

look at that coffeeshop wonder from somewhere near boston, apparantly he has an "ear to the streets", and after dealing with guys like that for a while, some posters may get a little skeptical, and they can't really be blamed for that. once again, i encourage everyone here to share any personal personal insight that you may have, just don't get discouraged if certain posters question it, as after a while here its always a safe bet!

Again you read EVERY mafia book and article you get your hands on, I just find it naive!