[quote=jonnynonos]All reasonably stated. But w/ Monroe and Sinatra, I'll assume you're saying "who cares."

Not much doubt they were involved with Giancana.

Sinatra was more fanboy than us, Monroe? Who wasnt she involved with!

Ha..just sayin'. I don't think it was a sign of their power, but she appears to have been with Giancana and there are theories that Frank Schweihs killed her.

Sinatra was the model for the singer in the Godfather...Chicago controlled the jukeboxes and the theater unions. There was no horse's head but something similar. They forced the producer to put him in From Here to Eternity, he won the Acadeny Award, his career was saved.

Chicago did that? I thought that was willie morretti or somebody from nj?

Not according to Russo.

I heard it was Willie Morretti too.

Russos full of shit

Mixed bag IMO. On one hand he used inexplicably bad sources like "Double Cross." On the other he got absolutely incredible access and conducted hundreds of interviews with people who were there first hand. Generally, he gave everything a better journalistic treatment than it normally gets. A lot of gangster books are awful because it is kind of a slum genre... for instance a book came out a couple years ago, by a major publisher, claiming Capone had nothing to do with the St. Valentine's Day Massacre. It was very badly researched, proposterous and I doubt the author himself believed his "theory." (Which was immediately exposed as ridiculous by John Binder.) However, that didn't stop it from getting very strong reviews, a ton of national press, etc.

In short, with mob stuff, people can generally write whatever they want and everyone just takes it at face value. What are the gansters gonna do, sue you? No way. And because it exists in an unkown/gray area, there is a lot of room for fudging. (As we see on these boards every day.)

Russo was definitely sensational about some things, but by and large he gave it at least a sembalance of a real journalistic treatment and so his book is better than most IMO.

Although his use of "Double Cross" as a source really has me scratching my head.

accardo would of held his own against any of the legendary new york bosses, from carlo to vito. however i believe they would of held their own also. the outfit r so strong and secretive - definitely some comparisons in this respect to the genovese's

i don't know any of your mob people so are they famous

Just Google The Chicago Outfit and start reading. There will be lots of links, so just pick one and start your journey. Wikipedia would be a good place to begin.

This is my first time posting here, my nephew told me about this question and he knew I would have to say something. I have a Master’s in criminology and have studied American organized crime extensively. I can tell you right now with all certainty that anyone who thinks the Chicago Outfit’s power only rivaled that of the “smaller” families in New York are deeply misinformed. Everyone has to remember that organized crime functions just as competing corporations. At one time Ford sold the most cars, but that isn’t so today. From 1920 to 1940 The Chicago Outfit wasn’t on the same scale as most of the New York families. However from 1945 to 1955, the Outfit’s power and influence would be comparable to many of the New York families with the exception of the Genovese, Gambino. From 1955 to 1975 the Chicago Outfit’s range had far surpassed anything in New York. The Outfit had become an international force to be reckoned with. Among the interests the Outfit had in Chicago it also included Casino and gambling in Mexico, Casinos in Iran, gun funneling and gun walking correlated with the U.S. government in central America, oversight of the illegal families in Milwaukee, Kansas City, Los Angeles, and of course Las Vegas. Their payroll included thirty circuit court judges, police and alderman in not only Chicago but Milwaukee as well. In Joe Pistone’s book, Lefty told Donnie that they have to be “careful in Milwaukee as they do not answer to anyone but Chicago and they are the most dog eat dog family”. Eventually corruption among the leadership, greed and federal indictments would significantly cripple the Outfit as by the early eighties they had lost much influence, at this time they were as relevant as any New York family. By 1990 to present they have become a very low profile organization, or as Mr. Russo says, a “pale image of what it once was”. Since 1990 the Outfit no longer even rivals the most trivial New York family. Their wealth and influence is gone forever, while they still exist it no longer compares to the organized crime in New York. But please remember at one time, it really was the most lucrative criminal empire in the entire nation……by far.

This is my first time posting here, my nephew told me about this question and he knew I would have to say something. I have a Master’s in criminology and have studied American organized crime extensively. I can tell you right now with all certainty that anyone who thinks the Chicago Outfit’s power only rivaled that of the “smaller” families in New York are deeply misinformed. Everyone has to remember that organized crime functions just as competing corporations. At one time Ford sold the most cars, but that isn’t so today. From 1920 to 1940 The Chicago Outfit wasn’t on the same scale as most of the New York families. However from 1945 to 1955, the Outfit’s power and influence would be comparable to many of the New York families with the exception of the Genovese, Gambino. From 1955 to 1975 the Chicago Outfit’s range had far surpassed anything in New York. The Outfit had become an international force to be reckoned with. Among the interests the Outfit had in Chicago it also included Casino and gambling in Mexico, Casinos in Iran, gun funneling and gun walking correlated with the U.S. government in central America, oversight of the illegal families in Milwaukee, Kansas City, Los Angeles, and of course Las Vegas. Their payroll included thirty circuit court judges, police and alderman in not only Chicago but Milwaukee as well. In Joe Pistone’s book, Lefty told Donnie that they have to be “careful in Milwaukee as they do not answer to anyone but Chicago and they are the most dog eat dog family”. Eventually corruption among the leadership, greed and federal indictments would significantly cripple the Outfit as by the early eighties they had lost much influence, at this time they were as relevant as any New York family. By 1990 to present they havebe come a very low profile organization, or as Mr. Russo says, a “pale image of what it once was”. Since 1990 the Outfit no longer even rivals the most trivial New York family. Their wealth and influence is gone forever, while they still exist it no longer compares to the organized crime in New York. But please remember at one time, it really was the most lucrative criminal empire in the entire nation……by far.

Excellent post, kwh, I agree that Chicago was right up there with the Genovese and Gambinos from the 1940's to the 1970's. They stretched from Florida to California and were international. Strawman and Gambat crippled them along with the deaths of guys like Ricca, Accardo, and Humphreys. The beginning of the end was when DiFronzo took over. If James Marcello hadn't been sent away, things would be different.

Poisoning isn't Schweih's MO. She would have been hanged or disappeared. Maybe killed in a fire. That had to be the work of Uncle Sam.

It was NJ that kick started and saved Sinatra's career. He did have connections to Chicago guys who no doubt helped his career along, but it was mainly NJ. Frankie was born and raised in Jersey

Years ago, during my father's time, there were 6 groups who were on the same level that controlled the American Mafia.
They were the New York 5 Families and the Chicago Outfit.
This was all true up until around 1985. After 1985, all the families took a hit but the Chicago Outfit took a much bigger hit and went down to a much lower level because of the Strawman Case, R.I.C.O., & Attrition.
The Outfit started their decline in 1986 and slowly went downhill. Then, to add insult to injury, in the later years DiFronzo Brothers, Lombardo, Andriacchi & D'Amico all retreated.
Also, Jimmy Marcello is gone and he could have jump started the Outfit to a certain degree.

What you have in 2013 is a football team still on the field, hoping to not get beat too badly, with the 2nd string trying to operate the ONCE GREAT Offense because the first string quit.

Chicago; do you think that losing Pat Marcy and his connection to the judges/politicians was the real big blow to the Outfit in terms of big-time power? I was just watching a documentary about (the rat) Cooley the other day.

Was Marcy really made or is that just more Bill Roemer bullshit? Both Robert Cooley and Corbit say he was just a "very trusted associate".

Perhaps Chicago or some of the New York guys can comment about the Ebolis - Tommy who was the front man for the Genovese Family and his son Louie "The Mooch" who was made into the Chicago Outfit. I remember READING (not hearing) that when Tommy was murdered in the early 70's, Louie threatened some Genovese guys that he figured hit his father and that they considered sending a hit squad to Chicago to knock him down but that Joey Aiuppa protected Louie and kept him safe and in hiding..Can anyone elaborate on that???

I read a similar story that indicated Louie "The Mooch" was going to NY to make things right, but was ordered by Accardo not to go. The reasoning was that the hit was a "normal purging."

I'm beginning to wonder if any of these stories are credible. It's really discouraging to spend hours, days, weeks, etc., reading and find that about half of the information is not accurate.

Very discouraging.

What I do know, Gary Martin is that it was Aiuppa who was close to Louie Eboli and not Accardo. Aiuppa was from Melrose Park and so was Louie's mother. I can promise you that Melrose was a close, tight-knit Italian neighborhood then. It makes sense a son would want to avenge his father. Aiuppa had no kids of his own and was kind of a father figure to Louie so it kinda makes sense it would be he and not Accardo that would protect him and talk sense into him at the same time.

Auippa Loved the Mooch. Actually, The Mooch belonged to Lombardo (Grand Ave). He used to control the machines in Melrose Park Franklin Park etc. After the Mooch died, it went to Cicero.

Tony Pro, Yes, Marcy was made. He was always direct with the top Bosses. He had a few soldier/associates working under him in his crew that would make deliveries (Bribes).

Guys like him were made men who dealt with all different made men across the Board in Chicago.

Chicago was incredibly powerful but they reported into the Genovese and NY so I don't get what the argument is . The NY man power is just unmatched , NY, NJ , CT can just support much more gangsters than Chi, NY gangster murder rate was very high and there were always replacements. I mean its NY and I'm not from NY. Just the NY drug $ probably was on par with all Chi rackets

Of all the families I actually think the luchesse were the most underrated family back in the day , they were a powerhouse with a ton of killers .

DB, Years ago Chicago was ALLIED with the Genovese Family. They didn't report to them, they were ALLIES. Other than that, I agree with you.

Well I don't know personally , just repeating what was said on wiretaps.

Your probably right but I also think Genovese had the final word , especially unions where they were probably aligned best

Chicago is right. The Chicago boss had a seat on the Commission just like the New York bosses and were equal. Its connection to the Genovese Family went way back to the connection between Capone and Joe Masseria. The Genovese Family had an emissary to Chicago because of their closeness: Gaetano Ricci (AKA Tony Gobbels). In the 1960s the Outfit became less involved with Commission because it was almost exclusively focused on New York issues. Chicago was big enough that it didn't need New York.

Maybe the poster Chicago can answer questions about how the Outfit related to New York after the 1960s, but to me it seems that it focused on the Midwest and the West and had no interest in East Coast matters.

Great post.

Why the fuck would Accardo or Giancana or Capone or Humphries "report" to anyone?

Was NY gonna send a mercenary team out to whack everyone?

Was Chicago kicking cash up to NY

Who did the CIA approach to help with Castro and the Bay of Pigs?

Chicago never reported to NY. They worked with the Genovese on many ventures and on control of the national unions, especially the Teamsters. The Genovese had their messenger to Chicago and the Outfit used Cleveland guys to deliver messages to NY.

So according to you the Outfit's was at the height of its power between 1955 and 1975? I was under the impression that they had a hard time in the 1960s, being prosecuted by the Kennedys and losing their casinos to Howard Hughes.

After The Al Capone Days, The Outfit's peak in manpower was probably bewtween 1945 and 1965. All of the Taylor st. men had pretty much graduated into the Outfit by that time.