Pizzaboy you know the lawyer bills must be eating away at whatever money these guys had. Especially Borgesi who's been off the street for 14 years and most likely not bringing in much cash from whatever money he has working on the street. His lawyer said that they will be appealing the no bail decision and thats probably another 50k right there.

So between the last trial, the appeals on the bail and another upcoming trial wouldn't you think the lawyer tab must be 500k or more?

Without batting an eye. I know someone who went through a similar situation (Federal RICO and anti-trust case, two mistrials, two appeals), and the tab for three guys ran high into seven figures. This was in the southern district of New York about ten years ago. It would probably run near a million today.

No big deal he[Borgesi] allegedley stiffed Bruce Cutler,you can't tell me these guys have that kind of money laying around.Maybe they work out deals like if the lawyer gets you off think what that does for his business.Then again if he doesn't he may get stiffed and it doesn't help him very much.

Mob lawyers have more money on paper than mob bookies. And mob bookies typically have A LOT of monies owed to them .

Your right 22, i forgot all about that. George said Cutler didn't do shit for him so he told him what he could do with his lawyer fees. Did Cutler try to sue him? Or did he know it was a waste of time trying to collect?

Here's part of a old City Paper article where it's mentioned.

http://archives.citypaper.net/articles/072601/news.mob.shtml?print=1

"Last Friday afternoon when the verdict was announced, defense attorney Bruce Cutler was mysteriously missing from the courtroom. Cutler is the very theatrical hotshot lawyer from New York who is best known for representing Gambino crime boss John Gotti.

In the Merlino trial Cutler represented Georgie Borgesi.

Several mob insiders told City Paper that Borgesi felt that Cutler wasn’t prepared for the case. Cutler’s fee was rumored to be $250,000, a percentage of which Borgesi paid upfront. But mob insiders said that Borgesi told Cutler he wouldn’t pay him the remainder of his fee and that Cutler left Philadelphia in a huff.

"Borgesi felt he paid Cutler what he was worth. He paid Cutler for his opening and his closing remarks," joked one friend of Borgesi’s during an interview in an Old City restaurant Friday night.

Borgesi’s friend claimed that some other defendants were so annoyed with Cutler’s theatrics in the courtroom that they were joking to friends and family, "Did you hear Bruce Cutler saved two guys from death row in New York? Yeah, he didn’t take their case!"

A prominent Philadelphia civil defense attorney who watched Cutler in the courtroom but asked to remain anonymous said, "Cutler is a great attorney because he is a great actor. Look at how the jury, the whole courtroom even, can’t keep their eyes off him when he’s cross-examining a witness. He is a very effective attorney, and he helped undermine the credibility of the government witnesses in this case."

The mob insiders praised the rest of the defense attorneys for their part, singling out Eddie Jacobs, Jack McMahon, Chris Warren and Emmett Fitzpatrick. "Jacobs led the charge," said Borgesi’s friend. "He did a great job and so did some of the others, but Cutler wasn’t prepared, and Georgie told him so."

Reached by telephone at his New York apartment Wednesday morning, Cutler said there was no truth to this story.

"Georgie Borgesi is a good man and I’ll always help him. We’re on great terms."

Cutler said he had to be in New York the day of the verdict and asked co-counsel Lou Natale to represent Borgesi that day.

Another Philadelphia defense attorney who has handled an number of "mob" cases, said "I heard that Borgesi won’t pay Cutler… and a lot of the wiseguys are laughing about it. But it sets a very bad precedent. Who wants a client that’s going to welsh on the fee? A lot of defense attorneys will think twice before they take a case from these guys now. Plus I think Cutler did a great job. And remember that there are a lot of Gambino members in federal prison. And when Borgesi runs into them, they may not think the whole thing is so funny."

Borgesi has a public defender so hes not paying, from what i understand in a major rico case they provide a top federal lawyer for defenses,

Ligambi i'm guessing is in 200k right now give or take,

capeci had an article about a new york guy trying to fight a murder who got a top ny lawyer 76k retainer and 12,500 a week for 10 weeks for a max of 200k for defense

Signore Abeetz. Thanks a lot. Everyone loved it. Father in law is hooked. He lives down here six months out of the year. Never knew before. Salude

This philly thing is a mess if u ask me. Even junior got bail after all those hung juries. Borgesi has to be distraught.

My pleasure, kid. Tell the old man if he wants I can direct him to a massage parlor in Boynton that will only show up as a "consulting fee" on his credit card .

But seriously, I'm glad you guys enjoyed it. When you find a decent Italian place in Florida, you really have to stick with it because there aren't too many (but a lot more than there were twenty years ago when you got egg noodles and ketchup if you ordered spaghetti marinara ).

To be fair, jr's bail was over $10M in collateral put up which was a record for a criminal defendant at the time.

I dont think Uncle Joe has that kind of money to throw around.

Dap. True. I overlooked that. Good call. Ur correct

Thanks again PB. Good people

I agree, i really doubt Ligambi has that kind of cash. I'm just guessing here but i don't think the guys in Philly are generating that kind of big money. More like grinding it out with the shark money and sports betting. But even the money from that is way down from the old days. A couple of those guys were picked up on wiretaps saying basically the same thing and even Nicodemo was caught on tape in the Borgata investigation telling Micali the wolves are starving or some shit like that.

Top Chicago and New York guys are the only ones with that kind of money

Agreed.

Here's Gary Battaglini's take on the Philly mob's finances:

"It's a broke mob, that's the bottom line, and it's gotten worse every year," he said in one conversation."Broke, broke."

In another, he complained that gambling customers had gotten more sophisticated and state-run casino gambling was eating into the bookmaking market. Eventually, he predicted, sports betting, like the lottery/numbers racket, would be legitimized.

"Everybody's got computers," he said. "Everybody's making moves. It ain't like it used to be...You got to run it like it's a business...You better watch what you take. You got to limit people."

If they had money they wouldve moved out of south philly into the burbs

Remember this fellas. And I know a lot of you guys don't have the first hand experience and that's ok. But don't believe everything these guys say on taps and what the FBI says. Not saying its all untrue but.......

A guy I know that I am close with tells everyone he's broke. Meanwhile he's making a killing. A lot of people cry poverty to keep the wolves at bay and so clients don't think your so rich they don't have to pay

Not saying I'm right in Gary's case I'm just sayin. Don't believe half of what you see and none of what you hear. Or something like that.

Not to mention they know Feds are listening. Throws them off A bit. Feds don't think you're earning maybe they leave you alone

Again, I'm not saying I'm right just another way to look at it

Sometimes they are bullshitting

It can also be argued that would make you a bigger target for the feds if they know your not earning. That would tell them your probably pissed your not earning, and/or have a grudge against some of the guys that are earning and thus you might be a candidate to flip for the government.

All speculation. U could be right. Just saying don't believe everything you hear that's all. These guys are all liars and con men.

You would have to be a fool if you think their broke. You know how many ppl are betting sports in south Philly

I made 65k last year on the books. I bet Borgesi made more than that sitting on his ass in that cell. It may not be what it was but trust me they are making money. Joey got out and looks to be doing ok for someone in jail that long.

A lot of it is just talk


Mind you....I could be wrong I'm just trying to look at it from another angle.

Always respect your opinion Dap. I just love a good debate. Debates and ideas being thrown around are healthy

oh yea absolutely

this reminds me of the skins tapes where ligambi told a story about beeps, see below:

"He told a story about Vincent "Beeps" Centorino, a down-on-his-luck member of the North Jersey faction of the Philadelphia mob who, Ligambi said, "was selling cakes out of the trunk of his car."

"I can't make three cents with him," added Joseph "Scoops" Licata, 71, a mob capo to whom the aging Centorino reported.

Licata, a codefendant in the pending case, drew more laughs when he said, "We'll run a benefit for him."

In that same conversation, Ligambi made an aside about Centorino's girlfriend, describing her as "the broken-down broad he was going out with in Florida," and complained about how Centorino had cornered him at a mob gathering in South Philadelphia.

"At the Christmas party we had, he was sitting next to me," Ligambi said. "He was giving me a ditty how broke he is.""

Works the other way too. Everyone wants to be a fuckin gangster. Get their paycheck, cash it and take a pic of it.... "I be on da trap 24-7 biatch! Broke ass niggas be hatin!" Or worse, tax refunds....


I would like to take this opportunity with my 666th post to put a hex on Andy Catnip! May your fantasies be filled with men! Oh wait!

I'm just talking more savvy guys. Not these newcomers thinking they sold a dime bag and they are niño brown. I get your point though

Don't mobsters hate black culture? The whole "I be shootin niggas and gettin bithes" thing? I mean when you look it at they do it too just in a different way. They don't rap about it in songs but people like Gotti did exactly what guys like Lil Wayne talk about in the songs.

WELL SAID

If it's the last name thing that bothers you I couldn't agree more lol

I hear ya I was dating a cougar at the time of my surrender I was just a cub doing real estate for her ...She offers to put up one of her properties and my Lawyer ..Was like NO and by the way FAMILY ONLY! (DOOR SLAMS)

http://www.philly.com/philly/blogs/crime...bling-case.html

As sentencing looms, reputed mobster's lawyer derides "glorified gambling case"

Joe Slobodzian - Inquirer reporter
May 30, 2013

Joseph “Mousie” Massimino, the reputed underboss of the Philadelphia mob, next week is scheduled to be the first defendant sentenced in the wake of a historic three-month trial of local mobsters. Massimino was one of three men convicted of racketeering conspiracy, and given his criminal history, the 63-year-old could get whacked fairly hard by U.S. District Judge Eduardo Robreno.

His lawyer, Joseph Santaguida, fired the first broadside in that battle this week, arguing in a memo to the judge that Massimino deserves between 57 and 71 months in prison, a punishment in line with the 57 months reputed capo Martin "Marty" Angelina got last fall after pleading guilty to the same conspiracy.

Santaguida contends that despite his past convictions, Massimino shouldn’t qualify for a stiffer term as “a career offender” because jurors in the most recent case didn’t find him guilty of a specific crime of violence, one of the three prongs necessary for the enhancement. They convicted him of the conspiracy, but deadlocked on three underlying accusations of running an illegal gambling business.

Santaguida conceded that Massimino was indeed guilty of illegal gambling offenses, but rehashed his contention that the crime didn’t amount to more than that.

“The fact is that this case is nothing more than a glorified gambling case,” the lawyer wrote. “The government is forced to blow these acts out of proportion because they wasted millions of tax dollars and resources.”

Prosecutors haven’t yet filed their sentencing memo, but they will no doubt see things differently.

In a July 2011 motion to keep Massimino jailed without bail, Assistant U.S. Attorney John S. Han wrote that Massimino had been arrested 30 times, had three prior felony drug convictions and was looking at a minimum of 17 years in prison if he was convicted on all counts.

"Through a panoply of crimes committed over a lifetime, undeterred by frequent periods of incarceration, Massimino has abundantly demonstrated his unwillingness to obey the law,” he wrote.

The sentencing hearing is set for Wednesday morning.

Don't they always say if you plead out you get a lesser sentence?It wouldn't make sense to plead out and get 57-71 months if you can get the same thing if you take a shot at a trial.It's like what do you have to lose.I mean if somebody told Angelina hey take a shot with a trial and if you lose you stll will only get the 57-71 months and credit for timed serve.