He didn't give the number in 07. He started talking in 02. Again, it wasn't something he said from the stand, it was a number reported on by the media during the trial that he had given to the feds ostensibly over the entire time he was cooperating, which would have been from 2002-, then, 2007, now present.

The feds then released the 28 number circa 2007 as well.

"We have 28 made members of the Chicago Outfit roaming in the Chicagoland area. We have over 100 associates of the Chicago Outfit," Grant said.

Grant was IN CHARGE of the Chicago FBI Office during the entire case, if that suggests anything to you. He has since moved on to a cushy job in security for Disney World.

There can be virtually no doubt that the 60 number included everyone already in prison and most likely people who were already dead in 2002 and all of those who have died since then.

Get over it!

He didn't give the number in 07. He started talking in 02. Again, it wasn't something he said from the stand, it was a number reported on by the media during the trial that he had given to the feds ostensibly over the entire time he was cooperating, which would have been from 2002-, then, 2007, now present.

The feds then released the 28 number circa 2007 as well.

"We have 28 made members of the Chicago Outfit roaming in the Chicagoland area. We have over 100 associates of the Chicago Outfit," Grant said.

Grant was IN CHARGE of the Chicago FBI Office during the entire case, if that suggests anything to you. He has since moved on to a cushy job in security for Disney World.

There can be virtually no doubt that the 60 number included everyone already in prison and most likely people who were already dead in 2002 and all of those who have died since then.

Get over it!

If you read a lot about this stuff, including the FBI files, you will find the same names coming up for the last 30 years in every wire tap, every file, every arrest etc. The same people get arrested over and over and over; when they fall for a wire, they talk about the same people everyone knows are in the mob.

Yes, but more tellingly he told his kid, on a wire, in the late 90s or early 2000s, that all it would take was getting rid of about 7 guys and you could "take the whole thing over." Then he said something along the lines of "It's come to that."

It was from a wire in Coen's book.

I'm not really sure who it would have been. You could find the top guys from back then, but that might not have necessarily been who he was referring to, as some of them were so old they were likely in advisory type roles. He might have been referring to the strongest guys on the street... Toots, Sarno, Marcello etc.

It seems that once they abandon violence and especially hierarchy though, you can't really call them "the Outfit" anymore.

Putting the 30 or so made members aside, the feds also gave the estimate of a little over 100 associates. So, anyway you cut it, you're looking at a total manpower of about 150 guys. That's comparable to the estimates of the New England or Philadelphia families.

This is the way I see it and I think that day is coming very very soon. In 10-20 years they're going to be like Buffalo is now.

There will be some independent racketeers running around, but no structure or kicking up anymore.

the only fact is that metropolitan chicago has alot of italians (700k plus) and the chicago area is very crooked so it ain't no telling what's really going on

Im sure italians appreciate that astute observation of their community. lol

The New York families, who knows? But there's no doubt they will stay strong for at least the next 25 years.

I actually think the New York families will always be around, but they will (probably sometime after 2050) mutate into something unrecognizable.