Vernace is one of the top guys for the Gambino's. Does he have a shot at beating the rap with two witnesses on the stand?

He got away at the last trial so thats in his favour. But it seems now the feds have got their ducks in a row and he seems like hes going through some shit by wearing his prison clothing instead of a suit.The fact that the victims were civilians and the witnesses are civilians too arent good for him.

Looks like Linda Gotti is set to testify at the trial. She's Pete Gotti's daughter.

"John Gotti niece Linda set to testify in Bartolomeo Vernace trial"

"Federal prosecutors plan to call Gotti as a witness against reputed capo Vernace, who is charged in the 1981 murders of two men in a Queens bar."

http://www.nydailynews.com/new-york/john-gotti-niece-linda-set-rat-2-slays-article-1.1284320

Linda Gotti's boyfriend was killed for really no reason, just for kicking some asshole out of the bar. Then the jerk and his buddies came back and murdered 2 guys. Pretty fucked up in my opinion.

I don't think Linda Gotti is going to id Vernace. Somebody correct me if i'm wrong but the first time around she was going to id Ronald (Ronnie the Jew) Barlin before she recanted her testimony due to pressure from her father and uncle. i don't think she ever id'd Vernace. Anybody know if thats the case? Has she ever id'd Vernace as one of the shooters?

This is it for Vernace if he's found guilty. Does he go after the witnesses? Does he go after a Gotti? Pretty crazy, this could get really interesting.

Why did it take the Feds 30 years to finally get this guy on murder? I don't know how any witness can accurately retell events that are over 30 years old. Some of the witness also appear to have recently "remembered" the events several years ago. i can't even remember what i had for breakfast.

Honestly i think it's pretty fucked up 2 guys were murdered just because they kicked some asshole out of their bar. But from the way i understand it, after he left the bar he went down the street to a social club and came back with Vernace and another guy. They knew what they were going to do before they got back to the bar, and they then shot and murdered 2 guys in basically cold blood. Shot at least one of them in the face. I have absolutely no sympathy for Vernace, he deserves to rot in jail if thats really what happened. Really shows you what some of these guys are all about.

Call me crazy, but Vernace seems like the type that would still go after a witness, especially one like Linda Gotti. The other guy I'm not so sure, let's not forget there are still guys in the mob that are dangerous and cold enough to go after somebody.

Isn't their reasonable cause to attack the witnesses creditably considering the events are so old and their stories have changed several times? I have just read so many cases and the psychology behind eye witness testimony to really question whether people can accurately recall thirty-some odd old events.

Granted this dude is a scumbag and should probably go away- but I think the ability of the state and feds to charge on the same crime is horseshit. Double jeopardy should prevent stuff like this.

There probably is Nicky, it's been a long time and i'm sure their lawyers will go after the memory of any witness like they should. But i don't know about you but if i saw my friend murdered in front of me i'm pretty sure i would never forget it. These guys most likely would of been found guilty if they weren't connected. From what i read there was alot of pressure to not testify and to change testimony 30 years ago or whenever it happened.

When these guys kill among themselves thats one thing, but to kill 2 guys who i believe were innocent civilians just because their pal got tossed from a bar is another thing. Pretty fucked up in my opinion, if that really is what happened.

Forgot to say i agree about that double jeopardy stuff. Doesn't seem fair to be able to try people more then once on the same charges. I do agree with people on that.

Do you know the history of this case? Why was there an acquittal in the 2002 state case? Where was this witness in 2002?

Generally the Feds don't charge on the same facts of a state case and defer to the state- so what exactly happened here? Which exception to the Petite doctrine has allowed the Feds to bring the same case again? Is this the "unavailability of significant evidence" exception? Or is this indictment different somehow?

Just a law student interested in the procedure here.

Nicky i don't recall the events of the original trial(s). I'm really just going by the different articles that have come out over the last few months or so. But from what i read there was some people who decided not to testify and others changed their testimony. I wasn't there so again i'm just going by the different articles that were in the papers.

Until recently i had no idea a Gotti was involved in this case. To tell you the truth, thats what is making this really interesting to me. You have a Gotti who's father and Uncle once ran the family that one of the accused is a member of. And you have Linda Gotti who watched her boyfriend be murdered by associates of her father and uncle. Pretty crazy shit.

linda gotti recanted her identification probably due to family pressure and i think the other guy refused to testify due to intimidation. to be honest if it wasnt her in that bar they probably would have just killed everyone else in the bar and left no witnesses.

I feel bad for her, she's in a bad position. Does anyone know if Linda Gotti ever id'd Vernace as one of the shooters? Or was it just that one other guy she id'd?

http://www.fivefamiliesnyc.com/2013/03/john-gottis-niece-set-to-testify-for.html

just a link to linda gottis role in all this shit

Thanks Joe.

From the article : "Linda Gotti recanted her identifications of Vernace and two other men as involved in the shootings, Ronald "Ronnie the Jew" Barlin and Frank Riccardi. But with the passage of three decades, she is finally ready to tell the truth, sources said."

Uh oh, looks like she might have id'd Vernace after all.

I think he has a great chance to win

1) it's 30 friggin years old. A good defense lawyer should eat it apart.
2) the guys like 100 years old. I'd say its harder to put grandpa away then some young punk
3) Feds haven't had the best of luck lately in NYC regarding mob murder charges

I could be dead wrong. Just my opinion

Looking forward to everyone's opinion

a question for all, how did vernaci get away with killing john's niece's boy friend and doing it in front of her?.he should have been killed for putting her in that position.. another time the got tis dogged it.

I will refrain from predicting an outcome until I see who all the witnesses are, what they say, and any evidence that is presented.

I think he is going to the can for quite a while...it doesn't look too good for Vernace, in my limited view.

The surprising thing is Vernace is only 64 until recently i'd thought he was in his late 70s/early 80s.

i didnt know that...i still think he walks...mobster or no mobster a 30 year old crime is tuff to convict.

gotti isnt such a great witness either...defense lawyer will crush her...so you say you didnt see anything but now you did? kills her credibility

if she tells the truth , the jury will believe her, the jury will know the pressure she had from the gotti family to recant. she did i.d. them i believe, then said no at trial.the jury may feel sorry for her having seen her lover killed then get gene john pete and all the gotti women in her face telling her to say nothing.. juries are very smart today.

The way it looks now i'd say he'll walk but as Dapper said i'm waiting to find out more. He's also been charged with Drug dealing,loansharking and gambling so he must get convicted of something.

I tend to agree. I think that even if he beats the murder rap, he'll get nailed on at least one of the more recent charges. I'd have to take a closer look at the federal guidelines, but off the top of my head I'd say that with his record he'd be looking at something in the ten year range on those charges. Not easy at his age to say the very least.

i was only referring to the murder charge...the others most likely guilty

Hi, Nicky. Yes, this trial seems to be based on new evidence, which permits a new trial and is not barred by double jeopardy.

Article in the NY Daily News today

"Victoria Gotti told niece not to cooperate with double homicide investigation"

"Linda Gotti said during recent FBI interviews that her aunt Victoria told her 30 years ago not to coorperate in a hearing for Ronald (Ronnie the Jew) Barlin, who was a murder suspect."

Full article : http://www.nydailynews.com/new-york/excl...ticle-1.1285852

Cheech i think Linda Gotti might make a very credible witness even 30 years later. If she's allowed to say her family made her back off i think the jury might buy it. Everybody knows the Gotti name and what they're about. I'm no expert on juries but i think her testimony is going to hurt these guys.

But then again i could be completely wrong about it. lol