East, don't pretend to know me or my life or what I think. I did NOT leave the Bronx over 40 years ago, it was much less than that. Second, I'm not a housewife. I'm a marketing professional who works for a national non-profit, but I also happen to be married, live in suburbia, own a home and have children, so that might be why you're confused.

You're the one who is screaming and writing in caps, not me, so really? Shut up. Also, God doesn't say homosexuality is a sin, the bible does, which was written by men. Incidentally, it also says that you can stone your brother for planting two different crops side by side, that you can sell your daughter into slavery and that you can put to death someone who works on the Sabbath. Better show up with a flamethrower at that convenience store you mentioned in another post if they're open on Sunday!

Don't ever think you know me, my life, my experiences, or try to engage me in a debate. You're far too short of ammunition.

Whats for supper

I would never pretend to know you nor spend the time trying to figure you out. I used caps a few times. However it's done in the same manner as your tone when your spewing your angry views! As for the disgusting woman buying cigarettes using a food stamp card yeah a bomb would do for profit tax paying workers a favor.

As far as ammunition, relax lady. You and your axe you seem to enjoy grinding are enough! Get of your soap box and high horse for a change and you'll see what's really going on in the world!

East, I'm beginning to think that you're related to Kim Jong Un: I recommend that you tone down your posts. Babe is one of the longest tenured and most respected members of this Board. On the other hand, your relatively short tenure combined with the vituperation of many of your posts does not favor respect.

The posting of views on this Board can be simply an effort to assuage feelings. However, many of us post to acquire and to convey information in aproductive manner.

Not Korean! I'm more of a Stalin guy myself! And to be candid and don't care how long anyone has been posting. It doesn't make their views correct, not does it give them a pass to shit on someone. I'm tired of hearing how long someone has been a memeber and somehow that makes them smarter or opinions more valid.

And read the thread not just my post. Those who want respect give respect! The rest is all just bullshit trying to gain favor.

You seem incapable of posting a response that doesn't degenerate into the personal. Please read what I've written about the 14th Amendment and the Bible and respond with a coherent and logical argument. That's how you get respect, not going to a personal attack that makes no sense. What does when I left the Bronx, what I do for a living, my brand of dishwashing liquid or how often I interact with inner-city minorities have to do with my views on gay marriage? That is what this thread is about, isn't it? The personal views of different people on gay marriage? In a thread that you started about that particular subject?

All this social rhetoric is a means to distract from the real issue, which is the fact that our government is in severe debt, and has shown no ability or interest in paying it down. If an individual can balance a fuckin budget, why can't our reps? Its pathetic, get over the social bullshit and focus on the real problem. WE ARE BROKE.

Both of you are living in denial. Or at least going on wishful thinking. Where do you get the idea that more people in this country are for gay marriage than against it? Heck, the whole reason the Supreme Court is hearing the DOMA case right now is because supporters of gay marriage know they can't win the day in most states.



Why is that?

The people of the state of California, the most liberal fricking state in the country voted for a state amendment to say thatmarriage is between 1 man and 1 women.

Ivy you're the one in denial. Over half this country supports gay marriage, the conservative nutjob base of this country is dying out and more and more Americans are realizing that gay marriage is not something to get up in arms about. This whole degeneration of society thing you're on about is a figment of your imagination

How can one person decide what God loves or doesn't love? I'm an atheist, no disrespect to the people who believe in God. But putting in God there just because you're afraid of what's different isn't the right thing to do. It's the same thing as KKK years ago, deciding that it's God's will to eliminate Afro-Americans.

I got no problem with homosexuals marrying each other, if they want to do it, they can do it. It doesn't change anything, neither does it affect me or anyone else. They'll still be gay even if you disallow them to marry each other or to raise children.

And if you ask me, I'd better be seeing some child to be raised by homosexuals than rotting in the child shelters or to be raised by parents who are alcoholics or crack addicts.

Again, what are you basing this on? Liberal propaganda and polls? No less than 35 states (that's 70% of them) have banned gay marriage. Now, obviously some of the more populous, liberal states have or will legalize it. But, even then, I'm not sure it would be enough to say more of the population is in favor of it then is against it.

And the decline of society is no figment of my imagination. As younger people have become more accepting of homosexuality, they've also become less religious and more agnostic or atheist. That's not a coincidence. Now, I'm sure some here would totally welcome that; misguided as they are. They long for the world ol' John Lennon sung about in "Imagine." But it's a recipe for disaster.



People know what God approves of and disapproves of because it's taught in the scriptures. It's just certain people choose not to believe those scriptures. Of course, when you get into it with these people, they don't understand the scriptures as well as they may think and most haven't even read them.

And it's telling how gay marriage supporters have to keep using arguments about the rest of us "not understanding gays," "being afraid of gays," or "hating gays." I think most of them know these are just lazy, dishonest talking points. Speaking for myself, none of the above applies to me. Although I don't agree with their lifestyle, want gays to live well and be happy. But that should not extend to two men or two women being recognized or sanctioned by society.

what is gods favorite food? what is his favorite football team? what kind of music does he listen to? what kind of jeans does he like? i ask these questions because so many here seem to apparantly know him on a personal basis as seen by their unshakable knowledge as to what gods position on homosexuality is based on nothing more than some silly interpretaion of a fairytail written by man. organized religon makes me sick, its nothing more than an outdated sham in my opinion. if you are able to better live your life as a result of your faith, +1 for you but please stop trying to preach what is right and wrong to me, and for those of you offended by my position, remember that the same freedom that allows you to believe in this stuff also allows me to let you know how ridiculous it sounds to me.

look at all of the problem that religon has brought the world. i would say that other than maybe money, religon is responsible for more death and hatered than anything else. the crudsades, hitlers exterminations, the troubles in ireland, the jewish/muslim conflicts, the muslim/western conflicts, the muslim/hindu conflicts, and the rampant sexual abuse/coverups by the catholic church, just to name a few. my point isn't to go off on some athiest tangant, but more to point out that if the history of organized religon was spotless, i might at least give some credability to those who claim that being gay is a sin, but that is far from the case.

our country is in the mist of economic turmoil, and the fact that this is even an issue says alot. in closing, let people do what they want, as the pursuit of happiness is what makes our country great. if 2 guys wants to have the silly title of "married" and that makes you uncomfortable, maybe its you who has the problem and are not fit to live in a truly free society, not just a free society under your own criteria.

Whats the difference between me trying to impart my religous values on you and you trying to impart your liberal theology on me? End of the day, it should be a state issue. If a state wants to make it 1man 1 women that should be fine, and if another wants to say two people of the same sex can get married then thats fine too.

As of December 2012, Massachusetts, Connecticut, Iowa, Vermont, New York, New Hampshire, Maine, Maryland and Washington are the only U.S. states to allow same-sex marriage. The District of Columbia also allows same-sex marriages.

Thirty-one U.S. state constitutional amendments banning legal recognition of same-sex unions have been adopted. Of these, ten make only same-sex marriage unconstitutional, seventeen make both same-sex marriage and civil unions unconstitutional, two make same-sex marriage, civil unions, and other contracts unconstitutional, and one is unique.

Let me blow up your bubble. Religion was made by people to control other people.

As to the graphs above, the idea here is "projected support," i.e. wishful/hopeful thinking on the part of gay marriage supporters. As just one example, if anyone thinks a majority of people in Utah will be in favor of gay marriage by 2020, they're smoking something.



This is a good example of what I'm talking about. The scriptures are just a "fairy tale written by man?" I'd be willing to bet that you've never even read the scriptures. Certainly not in depth. I'd be willing to bet what you know about them comes almost completely from the talking points against them you've heard from other people.

And the claim that religion is responsible for more deaths than just about anything is an old lie from the atheist crowd. If you look at the costliest wars and conflicts through history, in terms of human life, it was over politics and not religion.

Completely agree FF and PolakVet. Religion was made because the human species couldn't possibly accept the notion that we came to be on this earth by a natural process. It has been used to manipulate millions in the past and present. Now I also concur that if one can use religion to better their lives, good for them, and I applaud them. But can we stop with this stupid idea that all of our morals come from religion and the bible?

Bible was written by man at a time when we were ten fucking hairs away from being baboons. We didn't know our own shit from cornmeal. Separation of Church and State exists for a reason. I'm sick of morons like Rick Perry, who suggest that creationism should be taught in schools, that's more detrimental to society than homosexuality ever will be. And as for the pledge of allegence, I'm in favor of doing away with the verse 'under god'. Since when does god favor us over anyone else? We aren't a strictly Christian nation, our values and constitution have nothing to do with organized religion. I value my own head and ability to think for myself. The only things I answer to are the law and my boss at work.

Lastly on gay marriage. Ivy you must be seriously isolated or something. Come to Massachusetts, see what it's like, visit some schools and some gay and straight couples and families. Literally no one cares about gay people and if they're married, and if you do it's weird. It hasn't affected 'society' at all. This great decline you see doesn't exist. It's simply tolerance from a generation that has a better understanding of homosexuality and doesn't need a church to do good in this world. Quite frankly, it's better. The more the United States accepts gays and their right to be happy and marry under the 14th amendment the better.

You refuse to look at the polls and have the nerve to say we are in denial? Troll all you want. Gay marriage is here.

Wait a minute, who is making you gay marry? It should be a personal issue and that's what this fight is about. You can't tell someone don't gay marry because I don't, just as they wouldn't be telling you to gay marry because they do.

Totally agree.




Yeah wait a minute. It's not so simple when the issue spills into other areas of life. What about adoptive agencies who refuse gay couple candidates because it violates their personal beliefs? Isn't someone telling them what to do?

Ivy, it amazes me that anything that athiests/agnostics/humanists/etc have to say regarding gay marriage, or anything that you happen to disagree it...it's all liberal/athiest propaganda. Facts are propaganda. Science is propaganda. Anything and everything that doesn't gel with your belief system...it is ALL propaganda. You are an elitist, delusional idiot, and represent everything that is wrong with religion.

Go ahead and suspend me, mods, but it needed to be said.

It's again very simple. If they are a private organizations, they have a right to be as selective as they want. If they are a public organization, they would have to keep their beliefs out of their system. The same code of separation of religion from government applies to them. But I surely don't think if my bigoted aunt Sally wants to give her kid up for adoption, she has to be open minded about a gay couple. She can give it away to whomever she chooses.

I'm not sure what facts or science you're referring to but your opinion on the subject simply comes from ignorance. And the inherent problem of ignorance is that you don't know what you don't know. Religion has always been unpalatable to those whose lives are thoroughly steeped in philosophical conjecture.

You say you are not sure what he refers to, yet you call him ignorant? Who is ignorant then? You don't know, you are not sure, then you are the ignorant party here.

On the religious aspect of things, I'm hoping you always stick around, you are a gem of what religion does to the way people think if they dive deep into it.

I'm against it. It has an effect on children. It's abnormal. The arguments for it, such as any 2 people in love should be able to marry can be used to support incest
too. Letting them adopt children is disgusting to me, and that is another problem which people are forgetting or ignoring.

I don't know because he didn't specify and I'm not a mind reader.



Exactly. To say it's OK for gays to raise kids is saying there's no important difference in men and women. It's saying whether a child is raised by a mother and father, or two men or two women, isn't important. This is a crucial point that goes unnoticed in all this - the secular, liberal agenda to blur the differences between men and women. It's not just a lie, it's evil.

Yet you are sure that it comes from ignorance though, even when you are not a mind reader.

It's not set in stone that every child should be raised by a man and a woman. Many a time one or both parents die. Moreover, there are plenty of straight couples that are really not fit to raise their own children. Just because you feel icky, doesn't mean it should be unlawful.

A baby/Child needs a mothers love/bond..