Would you say that the U.S. Families have decided that there is more opportunity to make money in Canada than there is in the U.S.?

I see tons of stuff happening right now in Canada that is not happening in the United States.

Doubtfulask Sal Montagna what happened when he tried to move in on Montreal. Some of the American families may partner with some of the Canadians on Drugs but I don't think any of the american families have any say in Canada anymore. Especially now that Vito seems to have regained control.

i've heard on this site before that the outfit controls the gambling in all of western canada, but i'm still undecided if its true or not

seriously though, i doubt lcn has much of anytghing going on in canada directly, other than a few beneficial working relationships with some of the groups up. the bonnano's more than likely still maintain some ties to montreal, although nothing compared to even ten years ago. detroit may have some interests just based on geography, and buffalo are alledged to still have the remants of a crew in the hamilton area.

I don't think there Chicago controls anything in western canada. There are a tone of legal casinos all over western canada and we have a national lottery sports select that allows for anybody over 18 to bet on most any sport around although you can't bet single games on there and there are limits to how much you can wager. Any sport you can't bet on through that lottery or if you want to bet on any single game there are lots of off shore websites where one can do that legally although those websites may well be controlled by OC groups.

In western Canada Asian crime groups as well as the Hells Angels seem to be the most dominant groups. Maybe East Indian groups also.

CSIS Canada's intelligence agency say there are a couple of Italian organized Crime Groups operating in Calgary and Vancouver that have been around since the 1980's. CSIS states they are involved at the highest levels of drug importation and other traditional OC activities. Those groups apparently originate from Montreal and Toronto but if they are active they sure don't make the headlines often. I have read in newspaper articles and books that reference both Vito Rizzuto and members of [BadWord]-Caruana families visiting with local Italian crime groups and having business interests in each city. However there was little or no information about the groups they were meeting with.

As soon as Montagna landed bodies started dropping, if it was him who tried to seize control then he did a shit load of damage before he met his end.

Doubt any of the NY families could be virtually decimated like the Rizzuto clan was.

Even though you might in fact be right, I always find it slightly ironic that these statements are made by Montreal (or Canadian) guys in particular.

And even though the question of this thread is by no means a bad one, it doesn't really make much sense that, in the case the NY families decided to leave Canada for the Canadians, they suddenly changed their minds and want to be involved there again.

My opinion is that business at least in the form of local rackets, or maybe even international drug trafficking, between the New Yorkers and Canadians never stopped.

Sonny I agree that the drug traffic prob never stopped but I don't think any New York family has any say on anything that happens in Montreal or anywhere else in Canada. And traditionally the drug trafficking has been Montreal guys wholesaling to New York guys who distribute the drugs. More specifically it has been Sicilians in Montreal selling to Sicilians in New York who then distribute to others in the Five families. I don't think the Five families garner much respect from any mafia groups outside of the USA they have too many people turning to the government. The Genovese and the Gambinos maybe an exception to this rule.

Tommy Gambino I don't think the Rizzuto's were ever as decimated as they were portrayed. They have either taken Montreal back with little to no push back or they never lost power. Reports lately have the Rizzuto's working with the Hells Angels to once again fix drug prices.

Montagna was involved with a group of people who tried to take over the Rizzuto's most of this group was Montreal or Canadian based. I think the bigger power players in this group were montreal guys with close ties to Ndrangheta groups in Ontario. Montagna may have had influence in the murders of Paulo Renda, Nick Sr and prob Cu ntrera but how much say he had with the group of conspirators is highly debatable. Police have stated that Nick Rizzuto Jr and Nick Sr's murders were not related. Nick Jr was allegedly killed over a land dispute with a local mafia connected figure Tony Magi.

In the end Montagna was killed on orders a french canadian and with zero retaliation from Bonnano family. Giuseppe Renda another American Bonnano member who was closely aligned with Montagna disappeared in Montreal and is assumed dead. He was last seen with a member of the [BadWord] family once again no retaliation from Bonnano's. The body count on the side of those that opposed the Rizzuto's would now seem to be much higher than those who tried to over take them. The RIzzuto side would seem to have not taken any hits in almost 3 years now.

The five families don't need to be decimated by a takeover they are instead decimated by guys ratting one another out. Due to more stringent laws in the USA I don't think anybody could get away with waging a war like has happened in Montreal.

I agree on the part of the Rizzutos not being completely decimated, I meant to say the hierarchy, which apart from from Rizzuto Jr were completely wiped out.

Montagna was a rising star in the Bonanno family and he clearly had a fair amount of influence in Canada following his deportation, very risky move trying to oppose Rizzuto, but he was nearly successful. If Rizzuto wasn't in the can at the time he'd almost certainly have been killed.

The Bonannos have had no influence in Canada since Joe Massino flipped, nor any other American LCN family, they're too busy trying to rebuild there own families, nobody has the time or man power to set up crews in Canada.

As for your comment on all the US guys flipping, the only reason the Canadians don't is due to the fucked up justice system.

The Gambinos, Genovese, Lucchesse and Bonnano's are all still bigger crime families then Rizzuto family, none of the NY families are decimated, all be it the Colombo's are fucked. Genovese are far far stronger, as are the Gambinos.

Although there are some examples, it's hard to find demonstrable evidence of American LCN involvement in the Canadian underworld. Or vice versa. And people who would bring up Montagna have to remember that, not only was he from the one LCN family that traditionally had a long standing presence there (at least until the late 1990's or so), but he was also born in Canada and was only back there because the U.S. deported him. Their own cities is where the American LCN families' bread is buttered. Not Canada.

If I was going to start a crime wave I would go to Canada! There sentences are a joke and the Cops seem so far behind. Most likely not "on their game" like in the States. Here Cops always have to be alert. We're a madhouse compared to them.

Absolutely. When it comes to organized crime, the Canadians have been behind the 8 ball for too long and now they're just starting to wake up.

i thought that too how did that family be so careless and allow so many to be whacked blatantly within a small period of time. bodyguards at all times. even 2 armed beasts. they obv knew the streets at the time as montagna tried taking it without a fight b4 he got murderous (ive read not gospel)even after the 1st hit i would be very security conscious. canada seems very differnt and behind many countries with the crime families. wass very cliched and crazy that this kind of decimation could happen in modern times. obv too many years at the top unopposed. montagna should of been hit immediately

We've been through this before. Desjardins was arrested a little over a week after Montagna was murdered, and he was watching his back ever since the attempt on his life. It's not like people snap their fingers and someone gets killed. It takes time and preparation, in the case of high profile hits often months. When Desjardins was arrested it was said that police acted partly because there was a contract on Desjardins head. Obviously investigation on Desjardins was already taking place, but their decision to arrest him might well have been spearheaded because his life was in danger.

Even if the Bonannos have lost control over Montreal, do you think they would hestitate to kill a non-made member for killing one of their made members? It's true that the families in New York have lost much of the esteem they once had, so all the more reason for them not to lose even more face.

Also, you seem to be very sure about who killed Di Maulo.

People forget to realise that less then a decade ago the Rizzutos were still basically under the Bonannos family influence.

The only reason Rizzuto broke away was because Massino flipped and he family was in disarray, took them like 40 years to break free so you Canadians have a think about that before declaring the Rizzutos as some sort of mafia powerhouse.

im guessing vito was made by carmine galante in the late 70tys cause his father was close to him, being that galante gave him permission to kill viaoli or wat ever his name was. but now that every body around vito is dead is he a boss, to start making new guys? would ny or italy recognize him as a boss of a new family, I don't believe theres the 6th family that's b.s. sal vitale testified they had 20 guys up in montreal under there family, all but maybe 5 are dead. so massino flips does vito induct his kid and all these other people in montreal, maybe or the hells angels would just rob all these guys for there coke.

20 guys? Damn, thought they'd have at least 50.

He was talking about guys under Rizzuto who were made Bonanno members. Obviously there were others also under Rizzuto.

The Rizzutos aren't decimated. I mean, judging by the connected murders that occurred the immediate months after he got out, which some of them were coincidentally connected to the attempted takeover with Mantranga. Not just that, but if you think about it, during the mid-late 90's when most families were being literally dismantled by the FBI, the Rizzutos were still making millions trafficking hashish and some heroine. If the NY families went through all that with the law enforcement, and still maintained some funds and stature to stick around to this day, though barely. Imagine what the Vito & his followers can be capable of in Canada, where it's known that Canadian officials have a hard time prosecuting some of these guys. Still mobbing or not, I don't think Vito is a broke man by any means based off those things alone, he probably still has some reach in Canada, to a certain extent.

Sonny,

You are a good poster but we obviously disagree on this as pretty much every Montreal crime reporter as well as the Police have the Rizzuto's as the behind the Di Maulo hit. I haven't seen one shred evidence or anything even hinting towards any other group especially the Bonnano's. I do believe that Bonnano's could have sought retaliation if they wantedon Desjardins but i don't think they care as they are busy trying to get their own house in order. As I have said before Di Maulo never seemed concerned about Bonnano Revenge as he never went into hiding through out this whole war right up to the day he was killed. If Bonnano's had the reach into Canada that some seem to think they prob could have got Desjardins in Jail as it's hardly uncommon in Canada for people to be hit in Jail. For those questioning this read about the Gang war happening in Vancouver right now. Desjardins was put into protective custody after Di Maulo was killed if the Bonnano's were a big concern it likely would have happened a lot sooner.

And for the poster who was bristling at the Rizzuto's having only 20 made Bonanno members which is the number I have always heard as Ivy said above there are many others both made into the Montreal Mafia as well as others made into Italian Ndrangheta and Sicilian families also. When Cotroni was still in charge In Montreal he wanted to have a 5 year probation period for Guys made into families back in Italy before they could be made in Montreal. I don't know if the Rizzuto's kept that rule in place.There are a couple of RCMP and CSIS reports that estimate the Rizzuto family at 300 to 400 members and associates combined so the 20 guys made into the Bonnano's don't really scratch the surface. I have never read any estimates of how many made mafia guys are actually into Montreal. I know some have questioned the 300 to 400 number in the past but these are estimates coming directly from Canada's 2 major Police and intelligence forces. With the way mafia war has played out in Montreal I'm not sure if being a made guy means anything at the moment right now.

Thanks for the compliment. You're a good poster on Canada either. Ofcourse we'll just have to agree to disagree. I does seem evident that the Bonannos don't care as much as they should, and they might have gotten Desjardins in jail if they really wanted too. But Desjardins obviously enjoys a lot of protection inside jail, not only from prison guards, who monitor him closely, but also his allies. When Desjardins was incarcerated in the 90s it was said that he ruled as a king inside his prison. The least the Bonannos could have done is to put a contract out on his head. But I don't think that any Bonanno affiliate who might be in the same prison as Desjardins would risk his own life by killing one of the prison's bigshots. This is what you mostly only see in the movies, and this isn't a biker war.

There could be a hundred Montreal crime reporters claiming that the Rizzutos killed Di Maulo yet that doesn't make it evidence. As it turns out, claims and statements made by some of the most formidable reporters often turn out to be erroneous in the end. We don't even know Di Maulo's role in the murder of Montagna to begin with so thinking that he was behind it is highly speculative. I personally think that he was certainly aware of it, but turned a blind eye and let Desjardins take care of the matter. Maybe this is something the Bonannos only found out later, and even mobsters need evidence before they order someone to be killed.

And it's quite evident that Di Maulo wasn't expecting an attack from the Rizzutos either, if they were behind it in the first place. I think it's 50/50; either Vito Rizzuto or the Bonanno family or a combination of both.

Does anyone have any information on Canadian gangster Benjamin Kaufman of Montreal? He was around during the 1950's - 1970's and was close with Meyer Lansky.