I'm not familiar with your church, but the church I attended for a while had members who had kids outside marriage and were not married. Do Catholic churches now excommunicate those who are divorced? I don't think so. There was one across our church, I never checked it out though.

And I'm more cynical about religion to think they only care about money. They also care about power. They change and adapt as they go on to keep their influence on the masses. I would actually think if religion stayed in its original form, we would be done with it long ago, and I liked it better. But religious leaders are wiser than sticking to the olden ways and go extinct. The only good thing that I see in religious communities is that there are people who look out for their community. That's a good spirit. If people would evolve to have a sense of community without religion, I'd have liked it so much more.

Talk about leading someone. 20 shades of GAY.... grooming is what others would call it.

Another great freedom here! Freedom of religon...
Don't we even have one that worships trees or something?

I'll tell you what, we will send you Al Gore and maybe Denis Roadman and his wedding dress....this could be the spark you need to get you on the road out of the Internet closet and if act now we will send you that lady and her kid in the above video as a bonus

I never get your humor. Anyway, you called this a closet, I didn't. I'd rather you did something for yourself first and got out.

Wow, so it's only okay when others teach their children that gay marriage is wrong, but not for those who think it's right? They don't get to talk about such stuff with their children or children of like minded parents?

So where is this religious freedom you were talking about? For someone who is so enthusiastic about religious freedoms, you don't have any respect for the right of those with different religious values, do you? I wonder what you have done for this right that you keep bragging about, except being born into it and by the looks of it, hating it.

Maybe over there you don't understand the closet term, but I thought you would since you lived here in the United States at one time....NO?

That would explain why you don't get the humor.

I'm not myself Gay and if I were I would never have been be in the closet. I am soooo upfront and speak right out as you can see.

I have to run, right now, so maybe someone here will explain the term to ya! and then you will get the humor more.

Damn, I am in a hurry but I just have to say....using a little child like this is just plain wrong, leading a little child to get the answer you want to make your point and then running on the interent the way she does cheapens the meaning for what she is doing to get out, just like OBAMA bringing the families from CT into the floors to put pressure on people.

I have to run, I will post later..bye

I get that perfectly fine, and yet, I see no humor in your post.

PS: Are you suggesting that I'm gay and I'm in an Internet closet, and somehow these two can make me come out of the internet closet and that's somehow humorous? Cause I'm out of ideas, and I see no humor in this.

This looks like an educational program for kids, just like your average Sunday school. She is trying to educate little children about gay marriage. Just because you disagree with her, doesn't mean it's cheap.

Well, If you didn't ready negativity into every post just because some of us aren't jumping up and down agreeing with your views you would see the humor, but I think your passion for your opinion blinds you in many ways.

I am not saying you are Gay! ! ! AND since you say you understand what being in the closet means then you should understand that I mean: Since people there can not be openly Gay there or I take it
(please correct me if I am wrong) demonstrate or openly support Gay rights in the street/ political forums, then your views there are in the closet.

But here on the Interent you can come out of the closet as the expression goes and cheerlead the cause without the fear you would if you were on your own streets. NO?

Not that I disagree with her message that is for sure! I don't like the way she is doing it. If you want to justify in those terms fine..I don't see it that way myself.
"Judge, I object, she is leading the witness" screams out to me. Anyone other TV lawyers see it this way? Again it is not the message it is the way she is getting the girl to answer the question to make her point.

So why are you interested in the openness of my views in the streets or political forums in Iran? And how those two are gonna help my views over here to come out? And what's funny about this? There's nothing funny about what you said. As I said before, I hardly ever get your jokes.

However, the reason I look at your posts so negatively, is that you've been so passive aggressively jumped on any chance to remind me that I was born somewhere that we have no freedom, as if you have somehow earned yours. You were just born in this situation as well.

Except you are on the other side, so you would shout objection. If I'm the judge, I just overrule it.

Your right, I feel sorry for you and everyone else over there, I hate to think what it is like to live under that kind of world. And maybe that is why you are so over passion about your views because as I said before you can't against your own opponants over there. I am not pointing this out to you to hurt you, just explaining why I think that way.
I don't dislike you because you were born there, and I hope you wouldn't dislike us here for the same reason.
Your mistaken that we haven't earned our freedom here
, our history would say otherwise, and many different times including my own family in WWII, Korea and Vietnam. I have two cousins who have served in our latest conflict. And two over in Germany serving there. I don't think any one here takes our freedoms for granted and our country does more then it's fair share to help other countries to better theirs. And boy do we take grief from other countrys as you very well know.We are viewed as evil villians.

Religious freedom dictates you can believer, and teach your children that gay marriage is right, wrong, or neither. Same with pre marital sex, and a panoply of other issues. The main difference between what the USA SHOULD BE (but often is not) and what we perceive Iran to be is that religious views permeate the secular area. What right wingers in the US do not seem to get is that on issues like abortion, gay marriage, and a panoply of others, the freedom to hold one religious belief or another has nothing to do what is permissable in the secular world. For example if gay marriage is legal in one or more states, it does not mean the government can compel, say the Catholic church to perform gay marriages.

First of all, please don't feel sorry for me. Instead answer my questions as to what that joke was about, because the way you behaved, was as despicable as a rich kid making fun of a poor kid. And please don't take pride in what your forefathers or your family have done, you've not earned that yourself, just as a rich kid has not earned what his parents have. You were just born in the US, as I was born in Iran and you don't get to shame me for not having rights or freedom. So please don't change the subject with the history lesson, or make my remark about you into a rant of an average middle eastern about a villain american. For once, take responsibility for what you, yourself and not the rest of country did to another human being. Too dramatic? yeah I suppose.

OK. your angry, your mind is closed and you want to strike back- fine I take it all back. You have found a reason to twist aside everything I say with a hatefull negative view. To bad you don't know the real truth about me or my family which I am not worthy to talk about or what I do stand for or about.
There is nothing else I can say that you will not twist, so I will be happy to let it drop. Feel free to do the same and/or bypass anything I post.
Peace

The media is downplaying anything that would hurt this gay marriage nonsense, and apparently criminal justice system in some places is too.

How is it that this story has been so unknown to most? No hour long specials with Anderson Cooper on these two men.


http://www.nydailynews.com/news/crime/gay-conn-couple-accused-rape-face-trial-article-1.1310010

Because it has no bearing on gay marriage. Do you think there are no heterosexual married couples that foster or adopt children and then sexually molest them? There are plenty. Would an article about a heterosexual couple that molested their adopted child cause you to have second thoughts about all marriages???

Babe, I think that many posts about this subject are a function of emotion and/or based on anecdotal information. Some of the objections to gay relationships, sexual practices, and marriage as expressed on this Board (or otherwise) are glandular. I remember a Cheers episode when it was Carla (I think) who expressed her sentiment about some type of relationship as "eww". I think that several of our Board members have that sentiment toward gay people and/or gay sexual practices, and/or gay marriage.

Despite a plethora of words posted in this thread, I 've not read any that state how gay marriage does or would affect non-gay marriage.

Because they can't. Despite what many will claim, the United States is not a Christian nation. The seperation of church and state means the government cannot institute a national religion, and the government cannot interfer with the citizens' freedom of religion. Most are against because their faith tells them to be. And that is fine, just own up to it. But the bottom line is this, religious faith has no place in law making (see above explanation.)

While her filling her child's head with this garbage is disgusting and shameful, it's more about her exploiting her daughter almost as a prop here.



First of all, if you were 100% honest (which I'm not expecting) you'd admit that homosexual behavior between two guys disgusts you too. As even Dr. Drew said one time, it's basically a biological reaction of straight males when they see that stuff. So, unless you're gay yourself, you're going to have that gut reaction. You can pretend to be all enlightened and everything but it's BS.

Second, I posted an article containing several solid arguments against gay marriage, including how it would effect society. But my guess is, you didn't even bother to read it. If you were honest, you'd admit it doesn't matter how many good arguments people give you. You're steeped in this sick, liberal ideology and your mind is made up.



I'm certainly against it because my religion is. But that's not the only reason. Even if I totally took my religion out of the equation, I'd still be against it. It comes down to common sense. Two men or two women being married? That people even take such an absurd idea seriously shows how bad it's gotten.

And don't give me that crap about "religious faith" has no place in law making. Despite what you secular liberals say, that's NOT what "separation of church and state" means. You just twist and pervert the meaning of that in order to marginalize religion as much as possible.

And by the way, as much as you may hate it, the U.S. is mostly a Christian nation in terms of population.

I don't have a problem with religion or people who follow it, some of my good friends are Christian and go to church. But it has absolutely NO place in government or law making. Society's based on religious law are never stable or tolerant, *cough Iran. But it goes both ways, no government should tell people what religion to follow. That's the reason why many emigrated to America in the first place.

Many people in government are religious and that has shaped and influenced how they grew up, how they think, how they view things, etc. And so naturally that's going to influence, to one degree or another, how they make laws. That's just a fact. Well, that's if they actually take their religion seriously. It's obvious a Catholic like Paul Ryan takes his religion seriously, while a Catholic like Joe Biden simply plays the game and couldn't care less about it. Just like the guy he works for. Anyway, to say "religion has no place" in law making just isn't practical. Meanwhile, the flip side to that coin is that you're basically saying any hair-brained idea a secular liberal comes up is OK simply because it's not influenced by religion.

"Separation of church and state" means one thing - we don't have a state church like the Church of England. Everything beyond that is the result of secular liberal and activist judges trying to marginalize religion as much as possible because they can't stamp it out completely.

Ivy if someone is religious good for them. I have an uncle that used Christianity to quit drinking and I applaud him for it. But I object to religion influencing our laws and decisions. Religion should be outside of the pentagon and Capitol hill. You make your decisions based on political beliefs and the laws already in place. If we used the bible as a blue print for our nation we would be walking backwards to the bronze age.

On another note ivy I don't think every idea a "liberal" comes up with is ok quite the opposite, my views economically lean conservative. In fact the super left annoys me as much as the super right. Both sides are awful at times. But I don't like movements like the tea party because it appeals to a small base of Americans, is extreme in their economic and religious views and would have Christianity play an important part in our government. That to me and many people including republicans is dangerous

I'm not saying we use the Bible as a blueprint. But to completely throw certain religious influences out the window isn't practical. Even now, our laws against theft and murder, stem originally from "Thou shalt not steal" and "Thou shalt not kill."

Heck, even the secular liberal like Obama and Biden know they can't throw religion out the window. Why do you think they go to church and act like they really believe?

Joe, I appreciate your posts. They are reasonable and minimize or eschew emotional expression when such expression and adamancy lends nothing to debate. As I posted above, some posters have a glandular need to emote on the Board; thankfully you don't.

I wouldn't totally disagree with that statement. A lot of the founding fathers were religious and certainly some judeo-Christian ethics were adopted into the constitution. But when people try to argue that the USA is a "Christian nation" that's stretching it too far. Our independence and government was based more off the ideas of the enlightenment and the English government than God.

And I do concur Obama is not what you would call a "true christian" in the practicing sense. I believe he's only actively saying he is just to calm the misgivings of some people thinking he's Muslim which of course is ridiculous

Thank you olivant. I appreciate your kind words. I'm not perfect, many times I've let my temper get the best of me especially on this subject but I try to be civil. Frankly, I'm glad this debate has cooled down