there's alot of land in the south suburbs and enough action to have a crew

Some of them are huge, Ivy .


Because, believe it or not, the Feds tend to focus on Italian American bookmaking offices at least ten times as much as they focus on the non-italians. It makes for better press releases. And you know I'm no apologist. I hardly ever play the "Forever Bothering Italians" card. But what's right is right.

Gypsy bookmakers (and by Gypsy I just mean independent, it's in no way ethnic) have existed in New York for YEARS. It's nothing new. That street tax bullshit is so overhyped it's ridiculous.

Most of the mob connected guys that you're talking about have even layed off to the gypsies over the years. Because when you're a busy office, at the end of the day it's better to have a reliable out at five to one on Sunday afternoon than to shake a guy down for $200 a week. It's just better business. Forget all that "every bookmaker pays" nonsense.

The NW Indiana rackets that were run by guys like Snookie Morgano were taken over by others...including the Guzzo brothers. I know there are guys still operating in the heights...Michael Giorango's brother Joe being one of them. I'm not sure if they are a designated "crew" or an extension of Toots Caruso's territory or not. Anthony Calabrese was also a guy from the Heights.

Do yourself a favor Cook and ignore those who feel the need to weigh-in on everything, even when most of their posts are glanced over at this point.

Also I take back what I said about Solly D. I do believe he is still working with Cicero though I'm not sure his relationship to Sarno or Cautadella. I do know he is close with Pudge Matassa and is frequently with another guy known as "Jonny Moe" who is also made in Cicero. Solly continues to run things for Cicero in Lake County (which is where he and Infelice operated for years back in the 80s and 90s and where his kid Jerry oversaw his interests while Solly was in prison). What I'm not sure about is how much leadership Solly has within the Cicero crew and whether Pudge and Sammy C are above him or below him. I do know he's very respected and focuses on his establishments in Lake County (the bowling alley, etc.) and some carpet cleaning business.

A close friend let me know that when Solly D and Marco D'Amico were released from prison, the organizational structure of the Outfit changed significantly--Marco was essentially made a "#2" reporting direct to Jonny and essentially still controls bookmaking between the Elmwood Park and Cicero groups. Jonny "Apes" Monteleone once was in a similar role when Jonny returned from prison in the early 1990s--reporting directly to DiFronzo.

Jimmy I got out in 2008 or so and joined the top ranks in Cicero and took over the remaining rackets the Spano's had going (that family is supposedly out of all rackets now).

Remember that Sarno (who came up under Bobby Salerno) was very close with Marco--in fact he named his son after him. Matassa and Cautadella also are close with Marco...but Marco reports directly to Jonny and Petey. He just bridges the divide between the groups when it comes to gambling--he lays off action between Elmwood and Cicero frequently.

Sarno and Sammy were essentially enforcers farmed out between crews but reported Bobby Salerno. At one point they collected for Jimmy I and even Michael Magnafichi but not sure how they became so high up in Cicero. Then again, I hear all this shit second hand and with all the gossip and whatnot, who knows whats really going on. Chicago uses more "fronts" and "go betweens" than anyone.

Also Nick Guzzino is "the man" in the Heights. I believe Anthony Calabrese reported to him who in turn reported to Toots or Jimmy I.

Doesn't Spano get out in a year or two? Think he'll have a role when he gets out?

one thousand percent correct...same in new haven...Ivy trust me on this one...

just saw this, exactly...unless were talking about a maniac like Scarfo...why ruin a a well run book to shake down some guy for $200 a week.

ChiTown,

Jonny Moe is an enforcer or no? Isn't he in the chop shop business?

I found it with the Google/iPod wiseguy app .

So True!! It works the same way in Philly and I am sure Chi town and whereever else. Some of The independents are some of the biggest books. You can search my posts. Ive talked about this before.

He will never "Trust You" on this one. He will argue until it hurts. If he can't read it, it didn't happen.

I've been told the Spano's are out of the rackets. The family has plenty of money.

The only Italians in Ivy's home state of Utah are those in the "program." Ivy you need to start finding these guys instead of sitting on your computer all day...you can start your own little Italy!

i'm from southburbs so they can't tell me about something i've witnessed

but they would have to have a crew to work the area because it's too much territory for only a few guys to run rackets in the area

whose their boss or who they report to is anybodies guess

The extreme differences in what we've seen in cases going back more than a decade now shows truly independent operations are very much the exception to the rule. Especially big ones. And again, I'm talking about in those areas where the mob still has a significant presence. Sure, there may be a lot of individual agents taking bets who never rub shoulders with the mob. But the higher up the ladder you go, this seems to be much less the case.



Maybe the South Side/26th Street crew has some guys there but there isn't another crew based there, according to the FBI.



I could certainly believe law enforcement focuses more on the Italian-American bookies because of the Mafia connection. But that still wouldn't explain the extreme lack of non-Mafia/Italian bookmaking busts. People can talk about various exceptions they know of, and I take no issue with them on an individual basis, because I'm talking about the collective big picture. And the big picture, at least shown by indictments, is the illegal sports betting business in the Tri-State area, in much of the rest of the Northeast, and in Chicago is still very much connected to the LCN. But that comes in various forms, i.e. some operations being run directly by the LCN, others laying off to the LCN, others paying a street tax, etc.



I don't weigh in on everything. And, like I said above, there very well may be some guys operating there. Just not an actual standing crew. Anthony Calabrese, for example, answered to Jimmy Inendino.



I'd ask you and the others for examples of these big independents but I'm guessing I won't get any. Funny how it always seems to work that way, huh?

Again, one can certainly bring up certain exceptions to the rule. For instance, the Mastronardos. But even they were laundering money with a Genovese guy in Florida.



When I have people (such as yourself) lying about what they really know, I pretty much have to be sceptical, don't I?



Given how information is so widely available in this day and age, one could never meet a single Italian and still know everything they need to about the mob. You can keep pretending that knowledge is based on where you live, how much pasta you eat, or whatever but not many people are buying that old line of BS anymore.

Im sorry ivy, but on this one i absolutly refuse to go into specifics or name names.

Books get busted bc of a dead beat running to the cops or from a branch off another criminal investigation. Each office runs things a different way but for the most part, 90% of deadbeats dont get hurt. The ppl im thinking of consider a few percentage of missed collections just part of the business and is taken out of the agents commission. U get busted bc u hurt a guy, or scare a guy, or you juice and squeeze the fuck out of him. Or guys getting investigated who are into some thing else (which is the main reason most lcn books are busted).

I know ur looking at this whole business from an outside point of view. And u know i hate saying that whole "i know more than u bc yada yada yada", but ask anybody whos had any experience in it, they will say the same. So if you still want to stick to ur guns and follow ur original way of thinking, thats fine. Im not asking u or anyone else to believe me but im right.

I'm looking at the whole business from an overall point of view. As I said before, I'm not taking issue with you or others who know of independent bookmaking operations. I'm saying these operations (if they're truly independent in the first place) are very much the exception to the rule in the Tri-State area, much of the rest of the northeast, and in Chicago. One doesn't need to live in, or even have visited, these places to see this fact.

Whatever im done

you are dead wrong

Just ignore the prick and move on. Not sure why any of you guys engage him anymore...I just mock him and ignore his dork replies.

I believe Anthony Calabrese reported to Nick Guzzino. The media thought Calabrese reported to Jimmy I because Calabrese carried out a personal favor for Jimmy on a tattoo artist downstate. However, there was a go-between there and that was Guzzino who essentially took over what was left of that crew after Dominick Palermo went away. The Heights crew is probably now considered a "sub crew" of Cicero/26th Street.

i actually like Ivy, just think he is wrong on this one

Hell, Fratto, you don't even ignore me yourself. You say you do but we both know you read my posts. At least the ones involving Chicago. Don't get pissed at me because I post what the feds say, which so often conflict with your claims. It's just like old days over on the RD, isn't it?



Well, the demonstrable evidence suggests I'm right. People on internet forums can say, "Take my word for it" but long experience has shown that will usually lead one into error. I'd love to see any information that even hints that truly independent bookmaking operations are not the exception, rather than the rule, in much of the northeast or Chicago but I know I won't get any. Just a bunch of anecdotes.

i think in his case, its more of a "do as i say, not as i do" approach.

Same here! We had one HUGE disagreement and we've moved on! I actually appreciate his viewpoints!

Respect!

Apparently.

Ivy, how can i prove to you more independent bookmakers don't get arrested as LCN does? all i can tell you from living in new haven ct my whole life that is what i have experienced...in my experience i know more independent bookies than i do connected ones. its not like i live in kansas, im an hour from co-op city.

respect

More LCN books get busted I suppose because there already in the trap so to speak? Non connected guys can hide till they get ratted out or get stupid!

Respect!