guns are a fantastic way to enjoy the outdoors, a great way to blow off steam, an effective tool for self defense, and an enjoyable item for many to collect, and a great investment on top of everything. the same problems we have in the gun control debate are the same problems that have shown up in this thread. the people who don't own weapons, and have little to no experience with them, are the same people always calling for more restrictions based on nothing more than emotion, a lack of knowledge, and a biased media agenda.

where i live, its expensive and impractical to go shooting as much as i would like, but i still try to get out there and enjoy it as much as i'm able to. i've brought along some friends who aren't too fond of guns, or just never really gave them a second thought before, and they all had a great time, and really started looking at the issue in a whole different way, and this is after shooting only a few dozen rounds, sometimes less!

It is always that slippery slope, first this then that. start with something that can't argue against then tighten things down to the next level. just like NY down from 10 t0 7- yeah right.....


Let us be real truthful here. We shouldn't be passing laws in the name of: to "save just one more person". It is a crap reason and way overused as far as I'm concern.

It is one of those cheap reasons someone pulls when they really don't have a good reason. Even the Govt, the Arm Services, Insurance companiess ect all know that it isn't worth the price to save just one more. Watch the New Obama Care and see what a life is really worth!

If you want to save thousands then band all Cigarettes for example.

couldn't agree more! nobody is happy when accidents happen, but the "if it only saves 1" argument is nothing more than a copout designed to play on emotions. there are so many "preventable" ways that we can save lives, so to pick and choose to further our own personal agendas is dishonest to say the least. the facts are that mass shootings are not the epidemic the media has made them out to be, they are a statistical anomaly.

we need to find a balance between safety and protecting the rights of the law abiding, and where we draw that line is the cause of the debate. in my opinion, the single biggest way to reduce gun violence nationwide would be to reevaluate our current drug laws, as its a fact that the overwhelming majority of our gun violence is a direct result of the illegal drug trade.

I agreee with you on that. But don't you think that there are two sides?
Guns may be "a fantastic way to enjoy the outdoors, a great way to blow off steam," and maybe even an effective way of self defense.
But there's the other side? And that's why I posted the Youtube video about the comparison to Australia? Doesn't it bother you that the US are the among the countries with the highest firearm related deaths among western civilisations?
Isn't it worth to take a look over the country's border to check out how they deal with a problem like that?

No worries Af's. Ya never know what the future holds. Nothing wrong with being prepared.

Exactly FS. We enjoy our guns as much as we love riding on our 4 wheelers. Sometimes we combine both. Such a thrill sitting/standing and pulling the trigger and shooting the hell out of a zombie target.

With all the layoffs to the police they aren't always around and I will not wait for them to show up when my home is being invaded by one or more crooks or my car.

It's not that I've not gone shooting. I shot a couple of times at my brother in law's house. I shot a coin roughly size of a dollar coin from the other end of the yard. 35-40 feet roughly. And I did it the first time. It just needs a steady hand, good eyesight and as Jon Stewart said, "a finger." So what? It was not my cup of tea. I could see people enjoying shooting, as I have interests that many don't share.

Still I want to hear why NRA does everything to prevent a database of weapons and sales. As I said, everyone still drives a car, though it's heavily regulated, and bear in mind that cars are not primarily for killing. Guns are for killing when all is said and done. So what's the problem with regulating guns?

Well it is simple....maybe you should search the NRA website and hear what they have to say.

Even tho they are the largest group on Guns and Gun rights,(voice) they are still are not the overseer for gun owners. Still many people join or donated to it to stop unwanted controls put on them. And since this all started....Miliions have joined or poured in money.

So what about you FS? I'm assuming you are against licensing, mandatory training and gun regulations as well?

This is pretty obvious, but I think this administration and in general democrats have no chance to get any gun regulations done, no matter how bad the next massacre is going to be. With this political climate that roughly half the country thinks an apocalypse is upon them, or that their president is a Muslim socialist or that they fear the collapse of the economy, they wouldn't be willing to give any control over their guns to the government. If gun control is to happen, it might happen at a time that republicans are in power, economy is pretty strong and these massacres hit a bit closer to home for some of NRA lobbyists.

All in all, gun culture might go out of date, as it did in many other countries. You look at everything else and there's heavy regulation, be it smoking indoors to food and drugs to many environmental issues, but in the middle of this heavily regulated society, gun ownership goes rampant. It just doesn't make sense to go on like this. People would have to see this when they are more comfortable with their government, when they are not this divided to the far left and the far right.

You have finally shown your true, illogical colors. By your reasoning there should be no dirver's lecenses, no helmuts for motor cycles, no pilots licenses, just anarchy. FS is an anarchist!

\\Exactly. He is an anarchist.

Why is that? They know how Americans feel about the issue and they want to keep their job come mid terms.

DT are you married?

Do you own / ride a motorcycle?

Do you own/fly a plane?

I have a CC license issued and approved by New York State which was also approved by a judge. I have taken the mandatory training and classes to obtain my license and also many hours of training (by Choice) with the local Police, State Police and ATF Departments and several special classes. I am at the range several times a month to kieep my skills up. You must have read all this in earlier posts in this thread.

What would DT logic tel you about MY thoughts?

Yes, one that goes to Mass about five times a week!

No, I just joined the debate and have not read the whole thing yet. But this is what the state of NY requires you to do, I just asked for your own position when you said people donate money to NRA to push for reducing the current regulations as well.

Not really, dems voted in the senate for the bill, but since 60 vote is required, the bill didn't go through. If it was up to majority of the senate that is democrats, the bill would've passed.

NO I said Still many people join or donated to it to stop unwanted controls put on them

And what's unwanted control in your opinion?

The "unwanted controls" are gontrols on people, not on guns. It is the NRA which claims people kill people, not guns, hence the flawed logic. We are not talking about "gun control" we are talking about "people control."

If I don't want car insurance or a driver's license, I can still drive a car until I get caught. Sometimes people need to be controlled. This is especially true when it comes to dangerous instrumentalities.

Why is this so hard to grasp? It isn't. The NRA and its apologists are simply intellectually dishonest as well as morally bankrupt.

Your Logic is twisted and often wrong- Call DR Sock down to help you.

DT what is it that you do for a living and lets not be twisted in the answer there....

It's an odd fact that the NRA at one time was the biggest supporter of gun control laws in the country, having argued for and helped to draft federal legislation in the 1930s excluding certain firearms from public ownership. The NRA shifted its focus and has become outspoken in the 1970s and 1980s, obfuscating the Second Amendment.

DT will try and give you logic that I am against all controls, and would want a lawless world by his twisting things....

I asked you a question, not DT's opinion about you. If you are not comfortable to answer that, say so. But please don't include me in a passive aggressive behavior. It is frankly unbecoming.

I am so glad that I don't have to jump to answwer your questions...and please save the Psychology for someone else.

I think that what the NRA and many gun owners don't like about the "Universal" background checks and stricter control is that we don't want the Government to create a database so that at some time in the future they could come confiscate our guns like in nazi Germany. IN THE MILIARY we were told that one reason enemies were afraid to invade USA is because of the privately held guns. I have had a CC license for 45 years both in NY and NC. I just went to renew it and had to complete a lengthy series of forms and will once again be investigated. Not long ago I bought a shotgun at the dreaded gun show and guess what? my background was checked. All they need to do is enforce the existing laws and start cracking down on thugs via stop and frisk. They are afraid of Attorneys and afraid to enforce the law because the police are handcuffed by politicians, the aclu and others. Just my opinion

I just dread the day I open the door and the Feds are there to take my guns away. They'll have to pry it out of my cold dead hands I tell you.




TIS

but wait, msnbc says they don't check backrounds at gun shows, and rather than do a bit of research on my own, i just assumed that what they said was true, especially considering it plays right into my own personal agenda. are you saying that the media might not report the whole truth when it suites them? i'm both shocked and disgusted! by the way, i tried to buy a firearm on the internet the other day, and much to my dismay, i was unable to purchase one without going through an ffl dealer, which also requires a backround check. i guess they got that one wrong as well!

If you don't know much about guns, you shouldn't be in this argument. Go get educated and trained on firearms and then you will have a little credibility