The guy is a nutcase. He bags on the U.S. but speaks admirably about China.

Oh yes. "If you have nothing to hide, you have nothing to fear." That's what I heard in the country where I grew up (East Germany). Only, they weren't talking about terrorists but about "negative elements" who threatened the country.

IVY well if you think the guy is a complete nut you need to get your crew together and take a mission and rescue this misled soul before the Men in Black Assassinate him.

Sheesh, and we were complainting about Hugo Chavez.

You're really comparing the U.S. to Soviet-controlled East Germany?



Seriously, DickNose, I've never seen someone try so often to be funny and fail so much at it.

What's wrong with comparisons? I'm not saying that they are equal. I'm just saying that a paranoid Secret Service (is this a pleonasm?) always wants more and more info about the citizens. This can result in a suspicious atmosphere and a paranoia against external enemies or to kidnapping cases like that of Khaled el-Masri.

I think the NSA is the agency in question here and I'm glad they're paranoid. That means they're doing their job. If a lefty like Obama sees the need for this kind of intelligence gathering, that should tell you something. Hell, several politicians from both parties have spoken up in defense of this. How often does that happen?

It's very hard to argue with that.

It's like I keep posting, Obama had no idea what he was up against when he came into office (as far as terrorism goes). If someone as far to the left as he can see it, then just imagine how bad the threats against America must have actually been (and probably still are).

People can use terms like "Black Ops" and "Shadow Government" all they want. If not for the secret branches of the American government, Osama and company would have run completely amok by now.

^at what cost though? What if the very thing that protects us becomes our own worst enemy? I don't want to sound like a pinko, I love my country but you have to draw a line somewhere

Talk to me after you've raised a family. Their safety will trump your "freedom." I hope it does, anyway. Because I think a lot of you and I hope you'll be the kind of guy who puts the safety of his family first. Fuck all that other hippie nonsense. But it's a moot argument because these measures are here to stay. And that's because the technology is here to stay. If we don't use it to protect ourselves, the enemy will certainly use it against us. RonnieRocket is right about one thing. The horse is already out of the barn. None of the righties had a problem with this twelve years ago. I know I didn't, and I voted for Bush in 2000.

I lived through 9/11 in NYC, saw it up close, did over 40 of the removals from the morgue on First Avenue, and I worked I don't know how many of the funerals. It hardens you. So talk to me after you've buried a fingernail and explained to the family that's all that was left of their son or daughter.

N.S.A. Monitoring and Partisan Hypocrisy
By JULIET LAPIDOS, New York Times
June 10, 2013

According to a new survey from the Pew Research Center, a majority of Americans are O.K. with the National Security Agency’s surveillance program—i.e. secret tracking of phone records. Fifty-six percent think it’s “acceptable” while 41 percent think it’s “not acceptable.” That’s a slight change from seven years ago, when 51 percent said it was acceptable and 47 percent said it was not.

Those general numbers mask a large partisan shift. In 2006, when George W. Bush was president, just 37 percent of Democrats said the N.S.A. surveillance program was acceptable, while 61 percent said it was not. Now those numbers are 64 percent and 34 percent respectively.

Republicans appear to be fair-weather fans as well. In 2006, 75 percent said the program was acceptable, and 23 percent said it was not. Now 52 percent find it acceptable, and 47 percent unacceptable.

Partisan hypocrisy, it would seem, infects members of both parties. But there are other possible explanations for these shifts.

Checks and balances. In 2006, Americas were reacting to news that the government had not bothered to obtain court approval prior to tracking calls. Now the government loops in the courts. Democrats might think that judiciary involvement makes all the difference.

Time heals all wounds. 2006 was, obviously, much closer in time to the September 11 attacks. Maybe Republicans who have switched sides think of N.S.A. surveillance as an emergency measure that’s no longer justifiable.

Nixon in China. Democrats may feel that if the Obama administration has decided to continue a Bush-era program, that must mean it’s really necessary. That’s not hypocrisy, exactly, more like a matter of trust/mistrust in leadership.

http://takingnote.blogs.nytimes.com/2013...rss&emc=rss

You know I would PB because my mom and dad have already said they would do the same for me. I guess it's true, even though I'm an adult they'll never stop being my parents. I don't think I'm quite ready to raise a family yet, but I know I'd give a left arm and more to keep them safe. I can envision it. I hate to see privacy go to shit like it has within the past decade, nothing's sacred. But you're right, now that the cat's out of the bag it'll never go away. We will simply make the best of the situation. I know I got nothing to hide.

I guess my uneasiness comes from the book I'm currently reading: In the Garden of the Beasts. An account of former ambassador William E. Dodd about the rise of Adolf Hitler and Nazi Germany from 1933 to 1937. Not comparing our government to Nazi's of course, it just makes you think is all, I'm not Glenn Beck haha that stupid dope

What privacy? When you speak on a cellphone, you have no expectation of privacy. Your call is going out over airwaves and is easily intercepted. I'm surprised to find out they're only recording phone numbers.

respectfully disagree....you are more likely to be hit by lightning and die than a terrorist attack and die yet the media constantly is telling you about terrorism so you become afraid (enslaved)...I think we are going down a slippery slope

someone smart said give me liberty or give me death

and Bush and our Govt knew ahead a plane may hit the towers yet how did that work out?

Is there proof of this? I've genuinely not heard of this other than on conspiracy docs.

http://www.gwu.edu/~nsarchiv/NSAEBB/NSAEBB381/

not sure why this won't directly link, sorry

Thanks for this one, great link.

And because I disagree (when it comes to terrorism), I guess you're implying that I'm not smart? Okay, that's cool.

But it's just too easy to say such things from the confines of utopian suburban Connecticut. How many planes hit New Haven that day? How many friends did you lose?

As far as that "hit by lightning" vs. terrorism stat. Well, you still don't want to be the statistic. If your eight months pregnant wife and unborn kid became that one in a million stat, I'd expect you'd feel differently. But maybe not, who knows?

As far as Bush knowing? It's true that the CIA knew for some time that those towers were potential targets, but that Bush knew specifically that it would happen? Nuh-uh. And like I said, even though I voted for him once I thought Bush was a retard. But not an evil retard.

no lol, youre taking it wrong...i dont know who said the quote...im just assuming whoever said it was smart

absolutely no dig at you whats so ever

my wife is actually 8 months pregnant...did I tell you that or coincidence, i dont remember

I didn't mean to jump on you, Cheech. It's just that I'm pretty volatile when discussing 9/11. And you may have mentioned to me that your wife was pregnant, but that's not who I was referencing. I never would have posted that if I remembered that fact. Because like most wops, I'm pretty superstitious about such things. I was actually referencing a neighbor of mine. He lost his daughter-in-law and unborn grandson in the 9/11 attacks. His son is an alcoholic recluse now, almost twelve full years later.

These stories are just too common around here. Throggs Neck is home to tons of cops and firemen (it's not ONLY wiseguys living here ). I know of more than one lifelong libertarian who became that much more conservative because of a personal loss that day. And I understand that that's rectionary, but it's certainly understandable. I hope that clarifies my point of view .

no worries, completely get it

thats the dilemma we all face...when is privacy trumped by protection and the feeling of being safe...and I know 9/11 is a really really tough subject, so many innocent lives have been effected...remember new haven isnt far from nyc...i knew someone that worked in the towers but made it out...a lot of people i know knew people that died that day....worst tragedy are country has ever seen and hopefully it stays the worst forever...i wasnt trying to trivialize it at all

much respect to you my friend, as always i wish you all the best

Sales for "1984" have gone up 292%.

Wow, so they sold another 7 books!

who the hell would even notice that?

As long as its ONLY being used for national security, i dont care. I believe they can stample all over our rights if its neccesary to save lives. It crosses a line when they start using it for other things imo. Think of all the murders we could solve, drug dealers put behind bars, fugitives we could catch with this technology. But thats where it crosses the line. If someones caught saying "we are going to kill the president..." The nsa i think should have every right to look into that person. But if it turns into "We are going to kill the president... of the condo association..." Turn the recorders off and go back to work, bc that has nothing to do with national security. And this is coming from a guy who hates this shit. I cant stand all these fucking cameras everywhere. Fucking cop cars with atomatic plate readers that can scan plates on both sides of the street. Fucking stop and frisk. Fucking crazy ass gun laws, cant even take it out of your house. More taxes, more hand outs for the lazy fucks that dont work, more sorry your a minority benefits, more bailouts for companies that just putsource more work to indonesia so the greedy cocksuckers can get a raise from 10m a year to 12. Everything fucking white collar business out there is a racket for the rich, or a hand out to the poor. Both who, conveniently want more! While the work class (the majority of this fucking country), is shit on and robbed on a daily fucking basis to line the pockets of those both richer and poorer than us. The great cluster fuck of america god bless the usa!

Don't you think it goes beyond tracking terrorists, though?

I mean I get bored, but now that I know that I think tomorrow is going to such an awesome day

Granted, President Bush was a lot of things, but do I think he knew about that horrendous attack and did nothing to stop it? Not for a minute. Were the buildings on a list? Probably, but so were many others.