During the reign of Giancana, there were about 75 guys that were in the upper echelon of the Outfit. This included the Non-Italians which constituted about 8 or 10 guys.

During the Auippa/Cerone years, there were about 60 to 65 upper echelon Outfit guys with the Non-Italians being around 5 or 6.

In the late 1990's, the estimate of 70 made guys included guys in prison.
Nick Calabrese's estimate of 60 was only a guess because HE WAS IN PRISON and was only giving an estimate.

In 2007, the Feds estimated 28. Take the 28 figure, subtract some guys who died, and add on a handful who were made by Cicero AFTER 2007 and you're looking at about 30 MAXIMUM.

However, a few of them are very prominent guys who have retreated from the street rackets.

Traditionally, Made guys in Chicago, including some Non-Italian men, were always in charge of something. They didn't go out and do what ever they wanted and just kicked up money.
They all had specific roles like in a large Corporation.
Each man was in charge of a Gambling, Loan Sharking or Union Activity as their main role. Sometimes they did other things also on the side with the knowledge of their Boss.

Many of the made guys were in charge of Wards in Chicago. Within the different Wards, Juice Bankers were free to ply their trade. Generally the made men made the Payoffs in their specific area. They were many times referred to as "Street Bosses". The men above them were " Area Bosses".
the men below the made guys were referred to as soldiers or crew members because they worked full time under a made guy and belonged to him and his Boss. The guys who did business with the Outfit on the street level were called "street associates". These would have been the 25% street bookies and the tavern owners who partnered with a particular Crew.

I hope this helps. it's not easy explaining something that involves a lot of people and has a lot of different dynamics going on at the same time. This is a general overview.

Made guys in prison or not, they're always to be included in the estimate as you do not loose your made guy status when you go to prison.

So now that being said, the question arises: how many made guys (including those in prison) did the Outfit have at its peak?

You don't lose your made status when you go to prison, but if you are gone for a real long time, you lose a lot of what you had on the street. That's what matters. What good does it do someone like Jimmy Marcello who was in prison for 8 or 10 years, got out temporarily, and then went back to prison for good. He's a made guy in prison. So what?

So how many made guys in total do you think the Outfit had at its peak?

Read my posting above. After the Capone era, it was probably during the Giancana era. Maybe 75 guys in the upper echelon and maybe 300 or so full time soldiers working under them.

Chicago,

Just to clarify one thing, they said Nick Calabrese had "identified" 60 made guys. He definitely could have been guessing, but I interpreted it to mean he was naming names.

And besides the "soldiers" there were also "associates"?

The Soldiers were Associates. There were different kinds of Associates in Chicago.

Soldier/Associates: Full time working members of crews who worked under made guys.

Street/ Associates: People who did business with the Outfit on the street level. 25% Bookies, tavern owners (poker machines)etc.

High Level/ Associates: People controlled by The Outfit on a higher level: Politicians, Judges, Policemen.

It's likely that the Outfit has about 35-50 "made" guys with another 35-50 high ranking Associates. Taking out those in prison, it's probably 25 "made" guys on the street and another 40 associates.

Yet, the new Outfit is also part time. A lot of the Cicero/26th Street guys are even involved in legitimate businesses. No longer can you make a career out of doing Outfit business alone due to money and IRS pressures.

I don't think the Outfit will go away anytime soon, but it may become more like Philly, where a lot of the younger guys hold real jobs and do mob work on a part time basis (yes I know sounds funny). Rather than run book or shy 10 hours a day, a lot of the newer guys hold real jobs and run book or shy on the side. Contrast this to NY/NJ where most of the guys are 100% employed by the Mob.

There is no way there is 50 made guys. There is nowhere close to 20 or 25 made Outfit guys in jail, for one.

What made guys are in the joint besides Lombardo and Marcello?

Lombardo, Marcello, Bellavia, Marino, Spano?, etc.

Assume 35-40 made guys. Then 10 are in the can. 25-30 on the street and most are older.

Ok that's 5. Name the other 5.

Jerry Scalise, Robert Pullia, Art Rachel are 3 more.

Rudy Fratto is 9.

Where did you ever read Scalise and Rachel are made?

Scalise, Rachel and Pullia were associates and skilled burglars but they were not made guys. How do I know this??? My father was also a member of that crew. That crew made headlines in the 80's and 90's along with its leader - a guy named Bobby Siegel. They became known as the Hanhardt Burglary Crew after the crooked ass Chief of Detectives in the Chicago PD that often tipped them off to big scores...

So it is safe to say that the total number of Outfit associates were comparable to those of the New York families?

Today's Outfit has no more than 30 made guys and maybe 100 to 120 full time soldier/associates. We've already gone through this many times. The Feds in 2007 said 28. Figure a couple guys died since then and Cicero made a few and you're at 30 maximum.

The Outfit during Auippa/Cerone era was double the size.

chicago, its great having you here. besides the wealth of info that you have, it equally nice to see certain posters forced to shut up with all of the overblown hypotheticals that they have spewed for so long. they might still try, but at least now they will be forced to explain themselves rather than trying to confuse people by twisting words and facts. i'm not naming any names, but most people are aware of the dopes in question...

Thank You. The problem is that there are a few guys that WANT the Outfit to be bigger than life like it was years ago. But, it's not.
The Outfit years ago was like the Beatles.
The Outfit of today is Ringo Starr singing Yellow Submarine.

Big difference wouldn't you say?

That 70 member figure in the late 1990's was just a general estimate from the Chicago Crime Commission.



Yup. And that 25-30 member figure given in recent years, by a few different FBI officials in Chicago, was total. Not just active on the street.

Is it possible that some members are flying under the radar? Perhaps. But certainly not a significant number in this day and age. Certainly not enough to warrant people making up their own figures...40, 50, etc.

LOL I don't get it....I really don't...I only cheer for the Hawks and the Bears and the Sox like that...I think people who know somebody just wanna feel important because they a guy who knows a guy who is powerful, I guess...I'm a PROUD Italian-American...I make gravy with neckbones and salsiccia every Sunday lol I don't get how cheering for your hometown Mafia Family or any Mafia family makes one more of a paisan...

That's some crazy ish!

Bobby The Beak testified in Family Secrets. If I remember correctly they were going to kill him for the breaking into Accardo house thing, but they changed their mind. Someone sat him down and said that they had decided to kill one thief from every ethnicity to make a point to the underworld, and he happened to be the Jew. But they let him live, ultimately.

It's been a while since I read Family Secrets, but it's all in there.

That book is a circus. Other characters who testifed included Red Wilmette, the porn shop owner, and a few other Damon Runyan-esque people who came out of the woodwork from Chicago's underworld of 40 years ago.

I am not an Outfit groupie. I could care less about the size of the Outfit, I don't even live in Chicago anymore. I am just interested in the subject matter because of where I was born and raised. There's no question that the Outfit is very weak compared to NY and is pretty much become a part time mob.

So assume 25 made men. 5 or so are in federal prison. That's 20 on the street. Off the top of my head the 25 are:

1) John Difronzo 2) Peter Difronzo 3) Joe Andriacchi 4) Joseph Lombardo 5) James Marcello 6) Robert Bellavia 7) Louis Marino 8) Michael Sarno 9) Sal Cautadella 10) Solly D 11) Jimmy Inendino 12) Frank Caruso 13) Albert Vena 14) Michael Marcello 15) Bruno Caruso 16) Marco D'Amico 17) Tony Dote 18) Sal Cecola 19) Rudy Fratto. There has to more than them.

Of the high level Associates, assume 20 on the street.

But then where do guys like Urbinatti, the Galiotos, Rocco Lombardo, Carlo Dote, Rick Rizzolo all fit into this picture.

I would venture a guess as to say there are 25 men whom the FBI thinks are active in Chicago with another 25 high level active Associates. But I think there are far more part timers.

I guess my point is, why do we need to get into assumptions when the FBI has recently cited 25-30 made members and a little over 100 associates?

Mmalioni,
You basically named most of them. What you have to remember is that even if there are let's say 30 made guys, they are not all active for one reason or another. The DiFronzo Brothers retreated along with Andriacchi and D'Amico. A couple other guys are deactivated and are earning legitimately somehow someway with Elmwood Park.
If you really want to count how many active guys are on the street involved in the street rackets, it's no more than 20.
You're talking about Cicero, 26th St. and maybe a handful of guys from Grand Ave and Elmwood Park who may be working with them.
So, If Cicero has 9 guys, 26th St has 7, and there are 4 from the North Side, you're talking about maybe 20 Made active guys who have Soldier/Associates working under them. That would be about right. About 1/3 of the active guys compared to the Auippa/Cerone years with LESS THAN 1/3 of the Political Power.

That puts the Current Outfit operating at about 20% of what they did with Auippa/Cerone who were a little less than Giancana's reign.

Not sure if this was directed at me, but I was talking about the Outfit during its height. Again, is it safe to say that the total number of Outfit associates (soldiers, street associates, high-level associates) was comparable to those of the New York families?

With 4 crews, there has to be more than 5 made guys in a crew. To me, it's just difficult to comprehend how they would let it get that small. Assuming Elmwood Park has retreated and all of the active made guys from Northside are in Grand Avenue, why would Cicero/26th Street go along with such a small Outfit?

Where are the street busts? Show me the Outfit connected bookies, loan sharks, car thieves being busted, the corrupt cops ocassionally being sniffed out by IA, the jewelry heists, the video poker busts... where are they?

When someone like Spilotro was in Vegas he was being constantly indicted and his guys were being thrown in the can all the time.

Even someone like Murray Humphries was constantly having to ward off the feds.

How many times was Harry Aleman arrested? Twenty?

I can accept the fact that the Outfit has gotten a lot smarter and even that the feds don't care about it as much, or perhaps at all, but the complete lack of street level arrests suggests activity is pretty low IMO.

Don't forget Chicago Heights. But you could probably include that with bp