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Re: Detroit Bankrupt
[Re: dontomasso]
#728920
07/23/13 04:14 PM
07/23/13 04:14 PM
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Joined: Mar 2013
Posts: 525
So-Cal
vinnietoothpicks26
BANNED
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BANNED
Underboss
Joined: Mar 2013
Posts: 525
So-Cal
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And do those unfunded liabilty issues exist in states historically controlled by the republican party?
Which states have the strongest economies by in large? STates that are more business friendly. There are multiple reasons Detroit went under, and althought there are paople with various agendass who fit them to the situation there is no single cause. Paul Krugman has some good words on this. As for the assertion that businesses like "business friendly" states, that is totally true, but then again what is "business freindly to one type of business is not so friendy to others. For example after all the textile industry moved from the South to Asia, there were a bunch of poor states with lots of low to mediaum skill labor who would jump at the chance to make cars, so you see an exodus from Michigan and you see all the foreign car companies moving in to South Carolina, Mississippi, etc, where there is no union protection, low wages, low taxes, etc. This is "business friendlt" for the auto manufacuring industry. Banking on the other hand, and all financial trading does better in New York, and the whole DC-Boston corridor. Why? Because the best schools and culture are there, and their employees demand that standard of living. It is more costly, but overall it is more "business friendly" to that kind of business. Ditto for the Northwest and Northern California where much of the hi tech stuff is. Again, a climate amenable to people in that industry, good schools, laid back lifestyle....business friendly for that kind of business. I could go on but the point is made. When words like "business friendly" start getting tossed around it leads some ignorant people to think it means low taxes and no regulation. This is not the case in all business, and so it should not become a clarion call for the "no gevernment" agenda favored by the tea baggers. Northern California is the only thing keeping California above water. Sylicon valley is all entrepreneurial start ups, not big ass companies with big pensions. Or public sector unions that bankrupted the state. The only reason entrepreneurs go there is because they are 100% liberal. They don't go there because its business friendly. If you took away the weather, you have Detroit. Shit, the rest of California is going to shit with all the public sector entitlements, pensions and a huge welfare state in general. And that's with the weather. Are you seriously arguing that there is ANY type of business that prefers high taxes?
Frank Costello: Fucking rats. It's wearing me thin. Mr. French: Francis, it's a nation of fucking rats.
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Re: Detroit Bankrupt
[Re: pizzaboy]
#729027
07/23/13 07:39 PM
07/23/13 07:39 PM
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Joined: Feb 2013
Posts: 722
Midwest
LittleNicky
Underboss
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Underboss
Joined: Feb 2013
Posts: 722
Midwest
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What are you talking about Don? CA ranks as among the worst public schools systems in the country in almost every metric except money spent. Granted there are good universities there, especially the private universities like Stanford and SC.
There is doubtful causation between school expenditures (ie justification for high taxes) and the performance of schools. Most goes to pensions. If there were a causation, 30 years of massive federal government spending would have increased performance instead of test scores remaining flat or failing over the last few decades.
Last edited by LittleNicky; 07/23/13 07:40 PM.
Should probably ask Mr. Kierney. I guess if you're Italian, you should be in prison.
I've read the RICO Act, and I can tell you it's more appropriate...
for some of those guys over in Washington than it is for me or any of my fellas here
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Re: Detroit Bankrupt
[Re: pizzaboy]
#737591
08/30/13 06:36 AM
08/30/13 06:36 AM
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Joined: Jan 2008
Posts: 5,325
MI
Lilo
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Joined: Jan 2008
Posts: 5,325
MI
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There are a myriad of reasons for Detroit's problems. Bad politicians, segregration, poor education, poverty, lack of jobs, overreliance on one industry, globalization, tax abatements, poor property tax collection, low tax base,suburban sprawl, crime, etc. It's not something that happened overnight. From a purely mathematical standpoint this was predictable a decade or so ago. However the Michigan constitution does protect public pensions. The Fire and Police pensions are not in fact underfunded. Orr has made some very questionable actuarial assumptions to make that argument. And he will be fought on that. The average retiree pension is roughly $19,000/yr. Public employees do not receive Social Security. SE Michigan is indeed one of if not the most racially segregated areas in the country but it's been that way since before I was born or before Detroit had its first black mayor. I know that some have glee over Detroit's issues but it's too simplistic to say that this is solely because of political leadership. The previous take over of the school system by the state turned a surplus into a deficit so of course people are leery of outside management. There is justifiable concern that the bankruptcy will be used to line pockets, strip assets and leave the citizens even worse off than they were before. If there is a choice between cutting benefits for retirees and reducing profits for bondholders I know where I would be.
"When the snows fall and the white winds blow, the lone wolf dies but the pack survives."
Winter is Coming
Now this is the Law of the Jungle—as old and as true as the sky; And the wolf that shall keep it may prosper, but the wolf that shall break it must die.
As the creeper that girdles the tree-trunk, the Law runneth forward and back; For the strength of the Pack is the Wolf, and the strength of the Wolf is the Pack.
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