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No Star of David on Holocaust Memorial?
#728971
07/23/13 05:58 PM
07/23/13 05:58 PM
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Joined: Aug 2008
Posts: 8,534
IvyLeague
OP
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OP

Joined: Aug 2008
Posts: 8,534
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Atheist Group Calls for Removal of Star of David from Ohio Holocaust Memorial By Sterling Beard July 22, 2013 An atheist group is agitating for the removal of the Star of David from a Holocaust memorial at the Ohio state house, reports the Columbus Dispatch. The Freedom from Religion Foundation (FFRF) objects to the memorial’s inclusion of the Jewish symbol on the grounds that “permitting one permanent sectarian and exclusionary religious symbol . . . would create the legal precedent, for instance, to place an equally large or larger permanent Latin cross on Capitol grounds.” In a letter to former Ohio state senator Richard Finan, chairman of the board that oversees the capitol’s grounds, FFRF suggests that “the monument could resemble numerous powerful war memorials across the U.S. which do not use any sectarian images, including the national World War II Memorial, the Vietnam Veterans Memorial and the Korean War Veterans Memorial. Each is secular in nature and without religious reference, which offends no one and is respected by all.” The lack of religious imagery on those monuments “neither diminishes their significance nor detracts from the respect and honor shown for the victims of those conflicts,” they argue. The inclusion of the Star of David, FRFF explains in a press release, excludes 5 million victims of the Holocaust who were members of other persecuted groups, such as “gays, Jehovah’s Witnesses, Roma Gypsies, the disabled and many others.” Allowing the Star of David on the state-house monument, they contend, would “dishonor the truest protection our country has against a similar Holocaust on our shores: the precious constitutional principle separating religion from government.” http://www.nationalreview.com/corner/354...-sterling-beard
Mods should mind their own business and leave poster's profile signatures alone.
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Re: No Star of David on Holocaust Memorial?
[Re: NickyEyes1]
#728986
07/23/13 06:16 PM
07/23/13 06:16 PM
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Joined: Jan 2012
Posts: 1,449 New Jersey
Five_Felonies
Underboss
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Underboss
Joined: Jan 2012
Posts: 1,449
New Jersey
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Atheists just need to fuck off. First saying holiday instead of Christmas i don't think you understand sir. in a perfect utopia, nobody needs to feel out of place. saying merry christmas may make those who don't celebrate it feel uncomfortable, so we have to find a way to accommodate everyone. the only problem with that line of reasoning is that its impossible to do while maintaining anything resembling a free society, but that should just be overlooked as we become more progressive.
Last edited by Five_Felonies; 07/23/13 06:40 PM.
It's either blue cheese with wings or go fuck yer mudda!
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Re: No Star of David on Holocaust Memorial?
[Re: IvyLeague]
#729009
07/23/13 07:15 PM
07/23/13 07:15 PM
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Joined: Apr 2006
Posts: 11,797 Pennsylvania
klydon1
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Joined: Apr 2006
Posts: 11,797
Pennsylvania
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Before all of you junior crusaders get your panties in a wad, there's not much basis to the suit, and it is from a fringe group. While religious imagery (including crucifixes, Star of David) is essentially inappropriate constitutionally in government and other public places, there is considerable authority and precedent allowing it to remain when it is embodied in a display that advances or represents a nonreligious purpose. Here the memorial represents an event in history where the Jewish symbol is necessarily entertwined with the historical event.
Now Christmas and Hannukah displays are a different story. The Star of David or a Nativity are in this context constitute explicitly religious expressions, and courts have properly held that they do not belong in government buildings, parks, etc. However, decorated trees, wreaths, and menorahs have been found to have seasonal and cultural meanings beyond the religious context, and therefore these displays have been found to be acceptable decorations for the season.
Anyone who wants the nativity, you can display it freely on your property or church all year round.
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Re: No Star of David on Holocaust Memorial?
[Re: klydon1]
#729062
07/23/13 09:24 PM
07/23/13 09:24 PM
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Joined: Aug 2008
Posts: 8,534
IvyLeague
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Joined: Aug 2008
Posts: 8,534
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Before all of you junior crusaders get your panties in a wad, there's not much basis to the suit, and it is from a fringe group. As time goes by, these types and their views become less and less "fringe." People thinking they have a right to be "free from religion" is certainly more widespread nowadays.
Last edited by IvyLeague; 07/23/13 09:51 PM.
Mods should mind their own business and leave poster's profile signatures alone.
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Re: No Star of David on Holocaust Memorial?
[Re: IvyLeague]
#729077
07/23/13 10:01 PM
07/23/13 10:01 PM
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Joined: Aug 2012
Posts: 1,769 Massachusetts, USA
123JoeSchmo
Underboss
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Underboss
Joined: Aug 2012
Posts: 1,769
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Ivy this is a punk ass atheist group. I'm agnostic and struggle with religion but these guys are about as threatening as the Easter Bunny. There's not much cause to worry I've always had a soft spot for agnostics. They at least have some humility. You don't hear of many militant agnostic groups. Lol yeah. I'll be the first one to admit I'm skeptical of religion but I won't rule it out either
"Don't ever go against the family again. Ever"- Michael Corleone
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Re: No Star of David on Holocaust Memorial?
[Re: IvyLeague]
#729084
07/23/13 10:18 PM
07/23/13 10:18 PM
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Joined: Mar 2013
Posts: 525 So-Cal
vinnietoothpicks26
BANNED
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BANNED
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This is a disgrace. A small group? I dont know. I am never suprised anymore by the amount of nut jobs in this country.
Frank Costello: Fucking rats. It's wearing me thin. Mr. French: Francis, it's a nation of fucking rats.
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Re: No Star of David on Holocaust Memorial?
[Re: IvyLeague]
#729096
07/23/13 10:37 PM
07/23/13 10:37 PM
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Joined: Feb 2013
Posts: 722 Midwest
LittleNicky
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Underboss
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Posts: 722
Midwest
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Freedom from Religion Foundation has actually won quite a few lawsuits for a supposed fringe group. I think they are actually mainstream leftists perfectly in line with the party that tried to take god and israeli's status out of the party platform.
Should probably ask Mr. Kierney. I guess if you're Italian, you should be in prison. I've read the RICO Act, and I can tell you it's more appropriate... for some of those guys over in Washington than it is for me or any of my fellas here
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Re: No Star of David on Holocaust Memorial?
[Re: IvyLeague]
#729898
07/26/13 12:51 PM
07/26/13 12:51 PM
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Joined: Feb 2005
Posts: 11,468 With Geary in Fredo's Brothel
dontomasso
Consigliere to the Stars
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Consigliere to the Stars

Joined: Feb 2005
Posts: 11,468
With Geary in Fredo's Brothel
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Can I ask a sincere question? Why does atheism bother you? I mean, if you have your faith, nobody can take it from you. If your faith is true, nobody can change your mind. Why does someone else's bother you?
Personally, I disagree with this group. I think they're just plain stupid and silly, but what impact can they have on my faith? They can't take it from me. In a personal sense I simply find them annoying. Their inherent arrogance, as well as them spending so much time and energy fighting against something they profess to not even believe in. In another sense, I think these types are a sign of what is to come in terms of religion becoming more marginalized in our society. They may seem extreme even to you right now. But their views could very well be mainstream and widely accepted in another generation. Personally I find hard core aethiests and hard core religious people equally annoying. Anyone who is vociferous about the existence of a Supreme Being hasn't thought it through. There could be a God and there could not be a God, I am not amart enough to say. I have my own beliefs, but they are mine, and I have no desire to fost them on anyone else. And whatever some group of fringe religious zealots or anti religious zealots do is not going to afftect what I believe to be true. I'll tell you one thing, however, God is not some old white guy with a beard who lives in the sky.
"Io sono stanco, sono imbigliato, and I wan't everyone here to know, there ain't gonna be no trouble from me..Don Corleone..Cicc' a port!"
"I stood in the courtroom like a fool."
"I am Constanza: Lord of the idiots."
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Re: No Star of David on Holocaust Memorial?
[Re: dontomasso]
#730013
07/26/13 07:15 PM
07/26/13 07:15 PM
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Joined: Aug 2012
Posts: 1,769 Massachusetts, USA
123JoeSchmo
Underboss
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Underboss
Joined: Aug 2012
Posts: 1,769
Massachusetts, USA
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Can I ask a sincere question? Why does atheism bother you? I mean, if you have your faith, nobody can take it from you. If your faith is true, nobody can change your mind. Why does someone else's bother you?
Personally, I disagree with this group. I think they're just plain stupid and silly, but what impact can they have on my faith? They can't take it from me. In a personal sense I simply find them annoying. Their inherent arrogance, as well as them spending so much time and energy fighting against something they profess to not even believe in. In another sense, I think these types are a sign of what is to come in terms of religion becoming more marginalized in our society. They may seem extreme even to you right now. But their views could very well be mainstream and widely accepted in another generation. Personally I find hard core aethiests and hard core religious people equally annoying. Anyone who is vociferous about the existence of a Supreme Being hasn't thought it through. There could be a God and there could not be a God, I am not amart enough to say. I have my own beliefs, but they are mine, and I have no desire to fost them on anyone else. And whatever some group of fringe religious zealots or anti religious zealots do is not going to afftect what I believe to be true. I'll tell you one thing, however, God is not some old white guy with a beard who lives in the sky. +1 DT
"Don't ever go against the family again. Ever"- Michael Corleone
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Re: No Star of David on Holocaust Memorial?
[Re: IvyLeague]
#730939
07/30/13 02:46 PM
07/30/13 02:46 PM
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Joined: Jul 2013
Posts: 73 Eastern Europe
Slava
Button
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Joined: Jul 2013
Posts: 73
Eastern Europe
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The inclusion of the Star of David, FRFF explains in a press release, excludes 5 million victims of the Holocaust who were members of other persecuted groups, such as “gays, Jehovah’s Witnesses, Roma Gypsies, the disabled and many others.” The term "Holocaust" includes only the Jewish victims (6 million Jews), this term never included anyone else. So it's only right that a Jewish symbol is on a Jewish memorial. Jews are an ethno-religious group so it's logical that their symbol has some religious connotations, but as many Jews became non-religious in the last few decades and still identify with their Jewish identity, one could call it a symbol of the Jewish people as such, regardless of what they believe in now. After all, it's on the Israeli flag. I mean, that's like complaining that the 'double cross' on Hungarian and Slovak coat of arms is 'sectarian' and 'exclusionary' religious symbol, because it originates from 12th century Christian Hungarian Kingdom. One can't simply erase centuries of history and tradition just because he doesn't like what his ancestors believed in. Anyway, I do believe that non-Jewish victims of the Nazi agression in Europe are often neglected. But this is a subject for some other discussion and it's quite complex. The fact is that the term 'holocaust' (or 'shoah') is reserved for Jewish victims only. This atheist group obviously doesn't know much about WWII history/is not interested in it (otherwise they would be familiar with the basic terminology), they just want to create noise. It's very unjust to use something like a memorial for innocent victims to promote your own ideology, but that's how these groups operate.
Last edited by Slava; 07/30/13 02:50 PM.
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Re: No Star of David on Holocaust Memorial?
[Re: IvyLeague]
#734097
08/13/13 04:40 AM
08/13/13 04:40 AM
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Joined: Nov 2006
Posts: 1,841 OC, CA
Faithful1
Underboss
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Underboss
Joined: Nov 2006
Posts: 1,841
OC, CA
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Can I ask a sincere question? Why does atheism bother you? I mean, if you have your faith, nobody can take it from you. If your faith is true, nobody can change your mind. Why does someone else's bother you?
Personally, I disagree with this group. I think they're just plain stupid and silly, but what impact can they have on my faith? They can't take it from me. In a personal sense I simply find them annoying. Their inherent arrogance, as well as them spending so much time and energy fighting against something they profess to not even believe in. In another sense, I think these types are a sign of what is to come in terms of religion becoming more marginalized in our society. They may seem extreme even to you right now. But their views could very well be mainstream and widely accepted in another generation. It's a valid point that a lot of people miss. It's called incrementalism. Incrementalism is not new and it has already changed how we interpret the 1st amendment since at least 1947 in the Everson decision.
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