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Re: Why did Gotti not flip?
[Re: Mr_Willie_Cicci]
#730011
07/26/13 07:06 PM
07/26/13 07:06 PM
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Joined: May 2013
Posts: 999
mulberry
Underboss
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Underboss
Joined: May 2013
Posts: 999
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Gotti was a real gangster and could have been a very good boss if he was smart enough to keep his mouth shut. The Gambinos were very strong back then and I doubt any of the capos would have ever flipped on him. The entire case and Gravano flipping was all due to him getting caught on tape. He knew they were trying to bug him and he knew what happened to the bosses in the Commission Case just 5 years earlier, yet he was too arrogant and stupid. If he had only talked in the Ravenite with all the music and noise drowning out his words or did the walk talks then he could have lasted another 10 years or so. Other than Gravano, none of the Gambino capos in that era ever flipped.
Last edited by mulberry; 07/26/13 07:18 PM.
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Re: Why did Gotti not flip?
[Re: SonnyBlackstein]
#730030
07/26/13 07:38 PM
07/26/13 07:38 PM
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Joined: Feb 2013
Posts: 2,213
cookcounty
Underboss
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Underboss
Joined: Feb 2013
Posts: 2,213
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Getting enough support to kill a Boss in New York takes Big Fucking Balls. Wrong. Gotta whacked Paul out of fear. With Angelo's trial coming up and the drug dealing tapes coming to air, it was kill or be killed. That's not balls. That's a coward.+1 Skinny. Ego is why he didn't flip. And yes the FBI would've taken him. Look at Massino. so he's supposed to let himself get killed by a boss with disgruntled troops?
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Re: Why did Gotti not flip?
[Re: cookcounty]
#730061
07/26/13 10:47 PM
07/26/13 10:47 PM
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Joined: May 2013
Posts: 999
mulberry
Underboss
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Underboss
Joined: May 2013
Posts: 999
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Getting enough support to kill a Boss in New York takes Big Fucking Balls. Wrong. Gotta whacked Paul out of fear. With Angelo's trial coming up and the drug dealing tapes coming to air, it was kill or be killed. That's not balls. That's a coward.+1 Skinny. Ego is why he didn't flip. And yes the FBI would've taken him. Look at Massino. so he's supposed to let himself get killed by a boss with disgruntled troops? I guess if someone is planning to kill you, your brother, and your friends, and you kill him first, then you're a coward. 
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Re: Why did Gotti not flip?
[Re: Mr_Willie_Cicci]
#730065
07/26/13 11:18 PM
07/26/13 11:18 PM
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Joined: Jul 2013
Posts: 73
Eastern Europe
Slava
Button
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Button
Joined: Jul 2013
Posts: 73
Eastern Europe
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Why would anyone want to flip in his position? It wasn't so much about the mafia code anymore, he had to keep his own personal reputation alive. He must have known that there will be discussions, movies and books about his life even decades after he's gone and I'm sure that kept him happy even when in jail.
Last edited by Slava; 07/26/13 11:20 PM.
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Re: Why did Gotti not flip?
[Re: mulberry]
#730069
07/26/13 11:37 PM
07/26/13 11:37 PM
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Joined: Jun 2013
Posts: 2,017
SonnyBlackstein
Underboss
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Underboss
Joined: Jun 2013
Posts: 2,017
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Getting enough support to kill a Boss in New York takes Big Fucking Balls. Wrong. Gotta whacked Paul out of fear. With Angelo's trial coming up and the drug dealing tapes coming to air, it was kill or be killed. That's not balls. That's a coward.+1 Skinny. Ego is why he didn't flip. And yes the FBI would've taken him. Look at Massino. so he's supposed to let himself get killed by a boss with disgruntled troops? I guess if someone is planning to kill you, your brother, and your friends, and you kill him first, then you're a coward. The obvious point is he did what he did because he HAD too. It was FEAR that motivated him. Not courage. True 'balls' and true LCN would've been taking the rap. Broken down, hit, whatever. He'd broken many rules and instead of taking the rap, lashed out. He was a cornered dog who reacted. He wasn't true LCN (drugs, sleeping with other men's wife, backstabbing gravano) He was a self serving ego maniac.
Last edited by SonnyBlackstein; 07/26/13 11:39 PM.
MORGAN: Why didn't you fight him at the park if you wanted to? I'm not goin' now, I'm eatin' my snack.
CHUCKIE: Morgan, Let's go.
MORGAN: I'm serious Chuckie, I ain't goin'.
WILL: So don't go.
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Re: Why did Gotti not flip?
[Re: SonnyBlackstein]
#730072
07/26/13 11:58 PM
07/26/13 11:58 PM
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Joined: May 2013
Posts: 999
mulberry
Underboss
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Underboss
Joined: May 2013
Posts: 999
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The obvious point is he did what he did because he HAD too. It was FEAR that motivated him. Not courage.
True 'balls' and true LCN would've been taking the rap. Broken down, hit, whatever. He'd broken many rules and instead of taking the rap, lashed out. He was a cornered dog who reacted. He wasn't true LCN (drugs, sleeping with other men's wife, backstabbing gravano)
He was a self serving ego maniac.
Let me know who hasn't broken LCN rules. You have choices when you are threatened. Anybody would have feared Castellano. A coward would have flipped. A coward would have let his brother and friends get whacked. He did what a true gangster does when threatened. If he was self-serving, he would have flipped and done the TV and book circuit like Gravano and Leonetti. What would you have done if you were in Gotti's shoes?
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Re: Why did Gotti not flip?
[Re: mulberry]
#730079
07/27/13 12:31 AM
07/27/13 12:31 AM
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Joined: Jun 2013
Posts: 2,017
SonnyBlackstein
Underboss
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Underboss
Joined: Jun 2013
Posts: 2,017
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He did what a true gangster does when threatened. Really? Have a read about my namesake. Dominick Napolitano. That's balls and honour. If he was self-serving, he would have flipped and done the TV and book circuit like Gravano and Leonetti. Gottis wasn't self serving? Mate if you truly believe that then there's nothing I can say. All Gotti ever was, was self serving.
MORGAN: Why didn't you fight him at the park if you wanted to? I'm not goin' now, I'm eatin' my snack.
CHUCKIE: Morgan, Let's go.
MORGAN: I'm serious Chuckie, I ain't goin'.
WILL: So don't go.
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Re: Why did Gotti not flip?
[Re: SonnyBlackstein]
#730081
07/27/13 12:53 AM
07/27/13 12:53 AM
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Joined: Jun 2013
Posts: 699
Illinois
Chicago
Underboss
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Underboss
Joined: Jun 2013
Posts: 699
Illinois
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Sonny, You should have belonged to the Genovese Family. Boy, You really hated Gotti.
Well, Answer Mulberry's question. What would you have done if you were Gotti?
Do not make another remark until you answer the question. I want to hear your honorable answer. LOL
Last edited by Chicago; 07/27/13 12:54 AM.
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Re: Why did Gotti not flip?
[Re: SonnyBlackstein]
#730098
07/27/13 02:59 AM
07/27/13 02:59 AM
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Joined: Jun 2013
Posts: 699
Illinois
Chicago
Underboss
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Underboss
Joined: Jun 2013
Posts: 699
Illinois
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Like you know, like you've had to make those kinds of choices in life. Sonny, you know you're just talking big behind a typewriter. There is no God Damn way you would swallow a poison pill and commit suicide rather than defend your life. C'mon, stop all the bullshit comedy. LOL.
Last edited by Chicago; 07/27/13 02:59 AM.
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Re: Why did Gotti not flip?
[Re: Mr_Willie_Cicci]
#730105
07/27/13 04:24 AM
07/27/13 04:24 AM
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Joined: Jul 2012
Posts: 3,779
jace
Underboss
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Underboss
Joined: Jul 2012
Posts: 3,779
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I guess no one wants to say it, so I will, he was just tough. Don't call me a fan girl, it's just way it is. He is not only one, many who had no egos like his still did their time. He was very tough man, and really believed, wrongly or not, in Mafia way of life.
If he offered to flip, they would have given him anything he wanted. Locascio also stood firm.
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Re: Why did Gotti not flip?
[Re: SonnyBlackstein]
#730111
07/27/13 05:08 AM
07/27/13 05:08 AM
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Joined: Jun 2013
Posts: 699
Illinois
Chicago
Underboss
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Underboss
Joined: Jun 2013
Posts: 699
Illinois
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What rule did he personally break to warrant Castellano to want to kill him? How can you call the guy a rat when he went to prison and never informed on anyone? How is that a rat?
Your funny. You wouldn't put yourself in that position.
Angelo quak quak put him in that position. Sure, it's easy for you to say sitting behind a typewriter somewhere. LOL.
You don't like guys who rat, you don't like guys who go to jail and don't rat, you don't like a guy who defended himself from being killed? Who do you like?
Again, what rule did Gotti himself break? He didn't even know that one or two of his guys were selling dope until it was too late.
Gotti got caught in the middle between his Boss and Angelo quak quak who they had on tape. Gotti was between a rock and a hard spot. Listen, you can say whatever you want about the Guy, but for God's sake, don't call him a rat. Call him something else. Sammy Gravano was a rat, not Gotti. You're using the wrong word. LOL.
Last edited by Chicago; 07/27/13 05:35 AM.
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Re: Why did Gotti not flip?
[Re: Chicago]
#730113
07/27/13 06:44 AM
07/27/13 06:44 AM
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Joined: Jul 2013
Posts: 217
The ridge
Lilange
Made Member
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Made Member
Joined: Jul 2013
Posts: 217
The ridge
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What rule did he personally break to warrant Castellano to want to kill him? How can you call the guy a rat when he went to prison and never informed on anyone? How is that a rat?
Your funny. You wouldn't put yourself in that position.
Angelo quak quak put him in that position. Sure, it's easy for you to say sitting behind a typewriter somewhere. LOL.
You don't like guys who rat, you don't like guys who go to jail and don't rat, you don't like a guy who defended himself from being killed? Who do you like?
Again, what rule did Gotti himself break? He didn't even know that one or two of his guys were selling dope until it was too late.
Gotti got caught in the middle between his Boss and Angelo quak quak who they had on tape. Gotti was between a rock and a hard spot. Listen, you can say whatever you want about the Guy, but for God's sake, don't call him a rat. Call him something else. Sammy Gravano was a rat, not Gotti. You're using the wrong word. LOL.
He had guys in his crew dealing drugs now wasn't half the other crews in the family dealing. Sure and did Paul know about some if not all I'm sure he did to a certain extent. But let's make no mistake gotti knew who in his crew was dealing. But he's no rat. And it wasn't one or two of his guys and they weren't moving a little heroin it was tons. But I agree he's no rat.
"You come at the king you best not miss"-Omar
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Re: Why did Gotti not flip?
[Re: Lilange]
#730130
07/27/13 11:22 AM
07/27/13 11:22 AM
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Joined: May 2013
Posts: 999
mulberry
Underboss
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Underboss
Joined: May 2013
Posts: 999
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What rule did he personally break to warrant Castellano to want to kill him? How can you call the guy a rat when he went to prison and never informed on anyone? How is that a rat?
Your funny. You wouldn't put yourself in that position.
Angelo quak quak put him in that position. Sure, it's easy for you to say sitting behind a typewriter somewhere. LOL.
You don't like guys who rat, you don't like guys who go to jail and don't rat, you don't like a guy who defended himself from being killed? Who do you like?
Again, what rule did Gotti himself break? He didn't even know that one or two of his guys were selling dope until it was too late.
Gotti got caught in the middle between his Boss and Angelo quak quak who they had on tape. Gotti was between a rock and a hard spot. Listen, you can say whatever you want about the Guy, but for God's sake, don't call him a rat. Call him something else. Sammy Gravano was a rat, not Gotti. You're using the wrong word. LOL.
He had guys in his crew dealing drugs now wasn't half the other crews in the family dealing. Sure and did Paul know about some if not all I'm sure he did to a certain extent. But let's make no mistake gotti knew who in his crew was dealing. But he's no rat. And it wasn't one or two of his guys and they weren't moving a little heroin it was tons. But I agree he's no rat. Patsy Conte and the Cherry hill Gambinos were big into heroin trafficking. I'm sure there were other crews doing it too. Castellano was taking hundreds of thousands each year from the drug deals of his underlings and he knew exactly what Conte and the Gambino brothers were doing. Gotti never personally dealt drugs, but his brother Gene and the Ruggiero brothers were heavy into it along with other members of his crew. As far as the rule about not killing or attempting to kill bosses, what happened to Anastasia, Mangano, and Costello? Does that make Vito Genovese, Chin Gigante, Albert Anastasia, and Carlo Gambino rat cowards who are the antithesis of LCN? Guys like Accardo and Ricca were behind the killings of women. Gotti had a huge ego as do all bosses. You don't become a boss by being weak and unsure of yourself. In the end, he took his medicine and died in prison. That's LCN.
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Re: Why did Gotti not flip?
[Re: HairyKnuckles]
#730199
07/27/13 05:58 PM
07/27/13 05:58 PM
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Joined: Jun 2013
Posts: 699
Illinois
Chicago
Underboss
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Underboss
Joined: Jun 2013
Posts: 699
Illinois
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Same basic thing happened in Chicago. After Ricca died in 1972, it was kill or be killed for Auippa/Cerone. They killed DeStefano in 1973. He was Mooney's top killer. Mooney came back in 1974. They killed him in 1975. They struck first just like Gotti.
Welcome to the real world of the Mafia, folks.
Last edited by Chicago; 07/27/13 05:59 PM.
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Re: Why did Gotti not flip?
[Re: SonnyBlackstein]
#730216
07/27/13 07:12 PM
07/27/13 07:12 PM
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Joined: Jun 2013
Posts: 699
Illinois
Chicago
Underboss
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Underboss
Joined: Jun 2013
Posts: 699
Illinois
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I don't think anybody would completely disagree with some of those points. Whatever you want to say about Gotti, he had balls to plan and take out a New York Boss without Gigante's approval and he later accepted his fate and died in jail like a man. despite ALL HIS FLAWS and mistakes, you can't take that away from him, ego or no ego. Case Closed.
Last edited by Chicago; 07/27/13 07:34 PM.
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Re: Why did Gotti not flip?
[Re: Dellacroce]
#730219
07/27/13 07:19 PM
07/27/13 07:19 PM
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Joined: Jun 2013
Posts: 2,017
SonnyBlackstein
Underboss
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Underboss
Joined: Jun 2013
Posts: 2,017
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Sonny regardless of if i agree with anything else ur saying, you calling some1 a rat who took a life sentence makes ZERO sense. To clarify I was referring to his behaviour leading up to the castellano hit. Not his federal conviction.
Last edited by SonnyBlackstein; 07/27/13 07:20 PM.
MORGAN: Why didn't you fight him at the park if you wanted to? I'm not goin' now, I'm eatin' my snack.
CHUCKIE: Morgan, Let's go.
MORGAN: I'm serious Chuckie, I ain't goin'.
WILL: So don't go.
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Re: Why did Gotti not flip?
[Re: Mr_Willie_Cicci]
#730435
07/28/13 11:54 AM
07/28/13 11:54 AM
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Joined: Feb 2013
Posts: 177
Westchester
Frankie_Five_Angels
Made Member
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Made Member
Joined: Feb 2013
Posts: 177
Westchester
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John Gotti was a lot of things...... but a rat? poor choice of words..
"I'll give you undignified. Go fuck yourself. You, Phil... whoever. He's my fuckin' cousin."
"My name is George. I'm unemployed and live with my parents"..
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