I,ve posted this before I thought it was great. Horsy F made it so credit goes to him.

http://www.scribd.com/doc/73470041/Taylor-St

Here's another good for the entire Outfit 74-85.

http://www.scribd.com/doc/74456358/Chicago-Outfit-1974-1985

We have no evidence, really, of anyone, or barely anyone, being made. As far as I know there are no photographs of the process and they never found a secret list of made guys, etc.

The point is, why in the hell would DeStefano NOT be made. He was a gangster, political fixer, mob murder, 42 gang vet and probably the biggest loan shark in the city for something like 30 years. Plus he was obviously Italian.

Saying he wasn't made is like saying Tony Spilotro wasn't made. I guess there is no direct evidence to contradict it but if either guy weren't made, it would be extremely strange.

Sometimes you can have to fill in the blanks yourself.

Nicky Eyes1 you are terrible man, you dick ride the outfit and YOU do find all your info ON THE NET stop acting like your around people. Don't tell someone your form England end of discussion, Your a Dick rider end of discussion.

SgWaue86, those charts were really good, and a LOT of work went into them.

Hopefully some serious authors saved those as references. Those guys really knew their stuff and spent a long time working on those.

jonnynonos, I saw those charts once before. They are very good and I commented on them. They are basically the same thing I've stated. They really came from elmwoodparker who was The Don on Fosco's blog. He got banned from here. Anyway, He dictated the whole thing to a guy named Horsey Fart. Horsey Fart did the design.

Elmwood, (The Don) was excellent on the older Outfit stuff. He was just too much of a fan boy with the MODERN Outfit and he insulted New York like Cook County tries to do. Other than him not knowing about the modern Outfit and being insulting, yeh, he was great with the older stuff. No question.

Ah, that's too bad he is always getting banned. He really knew his stuff! So did that Black Angelo guy, and a few more over there as well.

I read all those guys' comments. I used to comment there occasionally under a different name. I didn't want Fosco to freak out and think DiFronzo was stalking him, LOL. Crazy but not outside the realm of possibility on that nutty site!

who the fuck are you to tell me what I can and cannot say?

I coulda sworn that you said in one of your first post that you weren't that knowledgeable on the current outfit

Fuck off don't make assumptions over the internet you piece of shit.

May I ask what homosexual thoughts are on your mind when you keep saying dick riding? Lived in Chicago all my life and never heard an Italian guy from Melrose Park say that to another Italian so constantly as you do.

Cook County, I never said I didn't know about the current Outfit. I said ELMWOOD didn't know about the current Outfit.

You can make all the dumb comments you want, I'm not stopping You! In Fact, I think you should make more comments about Zimmerman, Black People and the Outfit. I think it's great! Keep in mind that everybody on this FORUM likes you about as much as the Outfit liked your people.

Then, when you've exhausted yourself, You need to take an anger management class. LOL

PP, To answer your question:

The Changing of the Guard was because Giancana was gone, Battaglia was dead, Alderisio was dead, Bucciere was not in good Health, Daddano was in jail etc.
Accardo pushed for the change. Ricca was not in the greatest health and agreed because he really liked and respected Accardo and he would get his end from him.

The old Grand Ave power base moved to Elmwood Park, not Taylor St. This happened right after 1950.

The Feds did know he was made. Why Roemer denied it is beyond me. Here´s a small excerpt from a list showing the made guys of the outfit. Both Sam and his brother Mario is listed.

I would guess that it had something to do with Tony Capezio, who had a bad heart. He died in 1955 while playing golf. I'm not sure if he replaced Accardo as the Grand Ave capo when Accardo moved up, or if Accardo started out under Capezio with Accardo being his personal underboss, then Accardo moved up while Capezio liked where he was at.

cookcounty you're a good guy, and you're one of the few level headed folks that post here. Don't let these guys get to ya. Apparently you're allowed to get away with blatant racism here if you're "in good" with the moderators. And if you're not, telling the truth about certain members will get you suspended/banned. It's whatever, who cares.

White flight absolutely had a huge part to do with the Outfit moving away from the city proper. It wasn't the sole reason, but it was a big part. You're absolutely correct on that. Chicago is, and will always be a "black" city, whether we euro descendants like it or not. Hell, the damn city was founded by a black guy. Italians & Irish especially have always resented that.

Again, keep up the honest contributions & don't let them phase you.

Faithful1, Tough Tony was the Capo within the extended Grand Ave Crew in the same way DiFronzo was the Capo within the extended Elmwood Park Crew.

When you have Two Top Bosses, their Crews are 'Extended' meaning they also have a Capo in their Crew.

I'm gonna slowly but surely answer all your intricate questions that you've probably had for years that you will never find in a book. LOL. By the time you write your book, it'll blow Roemer's away.

You'll have to wet my beak with some of the Profits. You know, a tribute every week. LOL

By the time it's done I'm not sure there will be any profit to share LOL.

On Capezio, if I understand you correctly, he was the top boss of that crew which means that Accardo came up under him.

Back to Taylor Street, I'm going to go out on a limb and say that Frank Rio, Jack McGurn and Tony "Mops" Volpe were all Taylor Street guys.

Didnt Jack McGurn get his start with the circus Gang under Claude Maddox? And before that he was NY based.

Faithful1, I think Capezio and Accardo came up together. I think it was more that way.

Machine Gun Jack McGurn was a Grand Ave Man, not Taylor St. I don't know about the other two men, though I certainly heard their names mentioned in the past.

McGurn, I believe, sponsored Accardo into the Mafia (Outfit).
He was Accardo's Chinaman.

I was thinking that McGurn was Taylor Street because Rio, Ricca, Volpe and DeGrazia all lived near each other. Another reason -- this is just speculation -- is that Rio may have been McGurn's protector, and that after he died in 1935 Campagna and Ricca took him out.

Agree that McGurn was Accardo's "Chinaman" as you put it, but wonder if he was moved to a different crew after Capone was put away.

It doesn't matter if they lived near each other.
Frank Calabrese Sr. lived in Elmwood Park for years. Some people thought he belonged to DiFronzo.
No, he belonged to Angelo La Pietra (26th St).

I still maintain McGurn was Grand Ave. He was with that Café gang as Goldhawkroad stated in above posting.
I don't know about Rio, too much before my time.

There's a pattern, and this tends to be true in many cases, that when people are starting out in the Outfit where one lives matters and correlates to what crew they are in. After they start making money it doesn't matter as much because they move to wealthier neighborhoods.

Capezio and Accardo were both connected to the Circus Cafe and they went to Grand Avenue, but Claude Maddox was too and he went to Cicero. The Circus Cafe was also located in the North Side, so all those connected to the Circus Cafe moved away from that area. Anyway, just putting out a theory and seeing what everyone thinks about it.

Frank Rio was the bodyguard (if that's what he really was) who was arrested with Capone in Philadelphia. He was also supposedly the one who saved his life when the Moran gang machine-gunned a restaurant he was in. He was considered the top leader when Capone went to prison.

If Rio was his bodyguard, which was probably true, then he belonged to the Cicero Crew which was the largest and was Capone's power base.
It's the same pattern that nobody understands because they want it to be like New York.
The Top Boss of the Outfit has the strongest Crew and everybody else is partnered one way or another with him and his top men. That's the pattern. Once you understand and accept it, everything else falls into place. If you try to envision it like New York, it'll drive you crazy and you'll never understand it.

Accardo was also said to have been a Capone bodyguard, as was McGurn and Phil D'Andrea.

I hear what you're saying about Chicago's crew system and by now I'm pretty familiar with it and know that it's different than New York (and every other Mob family), but I'm not sure when the crews were set up. Under Capone it might have been one big crew and that they were divided up shortly before he went to prison.

I think a lot of them started out as bodyguards. Those were dangerous times and they were hired as bodyguards but were NOT MADE MEN.
Accardo went with McGurn into the Grand Ave Crew AFTER he got made. Before he was made, he was a soldier/bodyguard working for a salary in Cicero.

Accardo's progression went like normal for THOSE TIMES:
1)soldier/bodyguard
2)made man
3)Capo
4)Boss (One of the Top Two)

Bodyguards weren't made men? Huh, interesting.

I forgot to add that Lefty Louis Campagna was also a bodyguard, as was Mops Volpe. He also had non-Italian ones like Robert McCullough, and maybe Sam Hunt. Charlie Fischetti may have been one also.

The SENIOR Bodyguards, which were only a few, were Made Men. The other Bodyguards who worked under their supervision were soldier/Associates.
Then, when a guy proved himself, it was possible to move up and be Made so he could be more of an earner. That's exactly what happened with Accardo.
That's why, IN THOSE DANGEROUS TIMES, it seemed like everybody was Capone's bodyguard. Well, maybe at the beginning of their carreer in the Outfit, that was true.

Capone pretty much designed the Outfit. He was a very smart man. He was no different than an Executive in a Corporation being able to observe new men so he could see who he trusted, who had talent, and then move them where they were most needed. That's the impression I got from discussions about Mr. Outfit himself, Al Capone.

taylor street was pretty deep

did sam giancana run the crew into the ground with all the heat he brought?

It was arguably the deepest crew in American LCN history. It never got ran into the ground, it was split up & the territory was moved down to Chinatown/da port. It was just part of a different era. When the Joey O'Brien era began, Cicero took over (again) as the dom crew.

What does that have to do with anything? The discussion doesn't end because you want it too.

'Official BB loanshark' that is beyond gay.

Thanks.