You're right. If you're talking about international drug trafficking, we're talking about something on a whole different level.
Don't forget to include the Colombians and the Mexican Cartels also. LOL.

The thread is about being the biggest earner, first of all. Not personal wealth.
I only brought up MMD, because Rizzuto was mentioned.

If you're talking to me i completely agree, i only mentioned the other parts of Italy because there'll be a lot of bosses that don't get mentioned, who make alot more than the highest earners in the US.

There's no way to know who is the biggest earners in an ANY Criminal Organization. How do you separate an INDIVIDUAL from the ENTIRE Organization? Impossible. You have to look at the entire Organization as an earner more than the individual because there is no way to separate it unless you went in and had professionals audit them, which would NEVER happen.

Concur. Was referring to North American OC. Non specific cartel related.

If you read the op he specifically says, Who was the biggest earner in the history of the mob? Even if we were to talk about strictly Organized Crime, which the op doesn't specify, the Italian mafias are 10 times more organised than any US family. The South American drug cartels are more or less loosely affiliated gangs, the Cammora,’Ndrangheta and Sicilian Mafia are widely recognized as among the most Organized criminal groups on the planet.

Yes, I agree with you about the Italian Mafia.
I liked your first question when you wanted to know how could they determine someone's net worth in organized Crime. I believe that was your comment.
My point and really only point got sidetracked a little with a few other things.

Here's the point about this thread:

All these threads that are COMPETITION threads or threads like:
Who had the Strongest Family, Who was the biggest Earner , Who was the most Powerful, Who had the biggest dick etc. are stupid, juvenile and ridiculous.

There is NO WAY anyone can separate an individual from an entire Criminal Organization and start ASSIGNING DOLLAR FIGURES to an INDIVIDUAL and say HE was the biggest earner because there are too many people involved. It's impossible to separate ONE INDIVIDUAL from the entire Organization, assign some magic Dollar figure to him, and say he was the biggest earner. It's impossible.
It's no different than the Feds saying years ago that Al Capone earned $100 Million Dollars in one year. That was ridiculous. The ENTIRE OUTFIT MAY have taken in $100 Million but the efforts were made by A LOT OF PEOPLE, Not just Al Capone.
A million minus a million is still zero. Noone knows all the EXPENSES involved, losses, and all the people involved receiving some of the money. The ONLY way you could know would be to have a professional Audit done to determine it. LOL, which would never happen.

That is my only point and complaint with this thread.

I share your problems with this thread, these turn up at least once a month very rarely it's a fresh, interesting topic, most of the time they are threads that have been made multiple times and if the search function was used the op would be able to read through the thread to see if his question was answered, if not he could leave a comment on the existing thread. The other ones were started by Wilson .

I took this comment - You're right. If you're talking about international drug trafficking, we're talking about something on a whole different level.
Don't forget to include the Colombians and the Mexican Cartels also. LOL.

As implying that the Italians are comparable to the Mexican cartels in terms of orginization, which i must have been mistaken about.



.

Camarel, Thank you for listening. I think you are a sharp person and can see through some of this ridiculousness. LOL.

Whenever I would run into somebody that really admired someone and they would start rattling off huge exaggerated unsubstantiated Numbers about an individual , I would always use the Al Capone Story to make my point.

Camarel, don't think that the Outfit guys didn't talk about some of this stuff. The Al Capone $100 Million Dollar story was a big joke they would laugh about and make more jokes about it.

As far as the other subject, NOONE could ever beat the Sicilians and other Italians when it came to organization and secrecy. The American Mafia could learn a lot from the Zips.

Again @ Chicago.

Disagree.

Of course people earn diff in the mob. Some are more successful than others. A few much more so.

This is simply a thread aimed at identifying those exceptional individuals who are at the top in earnings in OC.

No ones saying the figures thrown around are anything but best guesstimates.

Forbes publishes highest earners. They don't audit.

Why is it so ridiculous on an OC board to try and identify top guys?

Sonny, You can identify all the exceptional earners you want, I do it myself. However, it is ridiculous to assign a Dollar figure to it for all the reasons I stated.
There is nothing wrong in saying Dominic Cortina and Donald Angelini were big earners in the Outfit.
However, I would never say how much money they PERSONALLY earned or what their PERSONAL Net worth was because I have no idea and neither does anyone else. There are too many other variables involved that are UNKNOWN. That's all I'm saying.

Fair point.

Thank You, you fucking Ball Buster. LOL.

It's rare that someone can effectively retire from the rackets and live off their income without law enforcement going after them and live in splendor. One guy who's name frequently came up in other discussions was Gerry Catena. Paul Castellano lived in his White House, but LE was always on his back and he had concerns about his own people. In 1986 Fortune magazine had a list of the wealthiest mobsters that included Tony Salerno and Michael Franzese. Here's some other lists (not all have accurate information):

http://www.investopedia.com/financial-edge/0912/8-of-the-richest-gangsters-of-all-time.aspx

http://www.celebritynetworth.com/articles/entertainment-articles/7-richest-criminals-history/

http://www.worldfinancialblog.com/entertainment/the-5-richest-criminals-of-all-the-time/

http://newsone.com/1505845/top-10-richest-gangsters-of-all-time/

Faithful1, We just went through this whole thing and now you're bringing up these same bullshit articles with all the same gross exaggerations being repeated.
The article says the same thing about Al Capone having a net worth of $100 Million in 1929 which is ludicrous. So are the other examples including Tony Salerno. If Capone's net worth or one year's income was way off and misleading, don't you think the others are way off. Someone qualified can estimate the net worth of Bill Gates, but not these people. It's not the same thing!

The people that write these articles that have no idea what they're talking about. The're just repeating the same bullshit they heard or read somewhere else.

Al Capone NEVER HAD A PERSONAL NET WORTH OF $100 million.
Meyer Lansky NEVER HAD A PERSONAL NET WORTH OF $300 million.

I'm not going to go through the whole thing again. Read my postings above. You're killing me. LOL

MMD was the one that came to mind to me also. They just recently confiscated how many euros from one of his 'front guys'? Probably a drop in MMD's bucket.

You're welcome! And, you're right on aabout exaggeration:

A big problem in doing scholarship on the Mob is that they aren't the types to leave their collected letters and papers to universities so that people like us can study them. Nor do they file tax returns. So, most of what's written about them is hearsay or worse. Case in point: Meyer Lansky was reputed to be the "richest gangster ever--worth $300 million." That figure stuck to him all his life, and was responsible in large part for the Justice Dept.'s prosecution of him. But Lansky had a competent biographer, Robert Lacey, who traced it to a tabloid-type writer, Hank Messick, who admitted that he heard it second-hand, was impressed by the figure, and ran with it. So did everyone else. Lacey figured Lansky was worth no more than $5 - 6 million at his peak--not peanuts then or now, but not the stuff of $300 million.

Lacey says the reason Lansky lived to 82 and died peacefully is he was never wealthy or powerful enough to incur jealousy--always fatal in the Mob. "He was the accountant, not the boss."

Joe Coffee made that statement about the Westies never kicking up despite the agreement , and it makes sense as that is how the Westies rolled

The Biggest earners in the American Mafia last years were:
Turnbull & Chicago, Outfit guys who EACHED earned 1 Billion Dollars NET PROFIT that they stuck in their pockets from the control of all the Poker Machines in the entire United States.

As reported by Chuck Goudie, Organized Crime reporter from Chicago.

Chicago, I put a qualifier that the articles don't necessarily have accurate information. They're half rough estimate and half entertainment. If you read them with that sort of understanding there's no issue.

@ Chicago , You are way off man , I'm pretty sure you don't know a lot about organized crime in Canada . I've read all the best books there is about it + I grew up in the street of Montreal . Let me tell you one thing , you don't even have an idea how much money they made back in the 90's ; The Rizzuto clan was the top organization out there and they supplied the Hells Angels Nomad wich was the most feared crew in the 90's . They imported tons of blow and hash every year . They ran major loanshark bussiness and they had a piece on huge construction project . Vito has a piece on everything , he's the most powerful mob boss of all time in canada .

Rizzuto Fanboys, I understand that the Rizzuto's were powerful. Rizzuto did not control all drugs in Canada and he does not have a personal net worth of $500 Million. Books always waaay exaggerate things about organized crime. You should read what they said About Al Capone years ago. LOL

That's the point. Don't name dollar figures and don't say one guy controlled all drugs in Canada and you'll be okay.

When you start naming numbers, you destroy your credibility and sound like a kid in a fucking playground exaggerating about how great your Dad is and that he can beat up all the other Dads in the whole world.

Don't name numbers unless you personally audited him. OTHER THAN THAT, I agree that they were powerful in the 90's.
Relax, what I'm saying applies TO ALL ORGANIZED CRIME in America and Canada.

Taking a zero away of 500 million and that would certainly be the most conservative estimate of his net worth.

Good point. Corruption in Quebec is still endemic and systematic. Think concrete club NY 80's.

http://www.thestar.com/news/canada/quebeccorruptioninquiry.html?app=noRedirect

If anyone's interested the above gives a few articles.

Personally can't wait until someone flips and writes a book. Last 10years in Montreal are fascinating.

Chicago , I said that THEY estimate his net worth between 500 and a billion . I got that from a very good book from experts in the Rizzuto organization . Those guys have been following them since they got into power ... I don't say that I agree with that statement but I would bet my money that Vito Rizzuto net worth is over 100 million dollars . I don't know why you keep bringing Al Capone up , at that time they didn't even have good technology and shit ! Who cares about Al Capone money anyways ? that guy have been dead for decades ... Call me a fanboy or anything you want if you please but I do care about my hometown Cosa Nostra like you probably care about yours , The Outfit .

I don't care about the Outfit. The fucking Outfit killed my father in 1985!
You're missing the point!

Books grossly exaggerate figures about organized Crime ALL THE TIME. They mix up Gross with Net, they guess at a Gross figure OF THE ENTIRE ORGANIZATION and assign it to ONE GUY.
I was trying to give you a couple examples:

1) Historians way past 1929 have stated in books that Al Capone earned $100 million dollars in one year. That is complete bullshit. Maybe the Capone Organization grossed $100 million in one year ( which I doubt) but that would include hundreds of guys, not JUST Al Capone. And, that would be Gross not Net.
They made it sound like Al Capone put $100 million in his pocket. Complete bullshit exaggeration. I was using this AS AN EXAMPLE of inaccurate or misleading exaggerations.

2) Historians in books have written that Meyer Lansky was worth $300 Million when he died. Complete exaggerated bullshit.
When he died, his PERSONAL NET WORTH was $6 million. 2% of what they stated IN SEVERAL BOOKS.

Now do you get the point? These people that write books are only repeating some inaccurate Gross exaggeration that they heard or read somewhere else.

I'm not trying to offend you, I'm only trying to explain something to you. Take what you read in a Book with a grain of salt When they start throwing around these huge numbers.

NOBODY KNOWS unless someone did a professional audit of the person or the entire organization, which would never happen. It's just exaggerated guessing and it gets bigger and bigger the more these assholes keep writing about it.

Turnbull, the head moderator of this site who is a very smart guy agrees with me. Read his posting above these last few postings.

Let's be honest here. The Italian syndicates are long well established and don't receive the same extent of persecution as the Mexican and Colombians cartel do or ever did. The reason why there is a lot of violence in Mexico related to organized crime is because of the different dynamics the Mexican cartels have to deal with the Italians never had to deal with. First off, the Mexican cartels are not well established compared to their headquarters where they are as well establish if more than the Italians. For example, the Gulf 's cartels headquarters is Reynosa and Matamoros, both are located south of Texas in the border region. The Gulf Cartel for decades operated and pretty much secluded themselves in those two border towns and as a result they are well established. All of the top bosses and captains are located in those two border towns and all of the orders come from there. It's basically the roots and trunk of the organiztion and it's almost near impossible for their enemies like Los Zetas to invade, enter or remain undercover/sleeper cells for a long until they are uncovered by the vast and sophisticated intelligence network, they have created made out of lookouts, municipal police, detective police, state police and the army. As Z-40 or Miguel Angel Trevino has found out the hard way, every time he sends 30 or 40 goons into the Gulf Cartel's headquarters. They never manage to remain there for longs as noted from this video:
(which I will later post because I am tin the library)

This is a supposed video of the Gulf Cartel members dressed in military outfits with helmet and military gear and interrogate Zeta goons caputred in Reynosa or Matamoros(Gulf Cartel HQ). You think these are cartel thugs in that video? I don't think so. Sure both Los Zetas and the Gulf Cartel are known to dress in military and police outfits to confuse the public and enemies when they go out to kill. But those look like professionals to me and not thugs as they want to suggest. It's more likely they are Mexican soldiers and not thugs. The person doing the interrogation is supposed to be one of the higher ranking Metros(Gulf Cartel faction). And this is just tip of the iceberg on how deeply the Gulf Cartel has penetrated and infiltrated the Tamaulipas state government and it's security forces. But all of this protection is just temporarily or virtual reality when you have Gulf Cartel plaza bosses working for the DEA and giving insight info into the organization for both future leneint sentences, operating as long as the DEA offer and keep much of the future net worth he or she has accumulated over the years as a drug trafficker. Once the informant gives as much info to the DEA , the drones takes care of the surveillance for months based on the informant intel and finally they plan a operation against the monitored drug boss. About 600 marines invade Matamoros or Reynosa and perform an operation and perimeter around the alledge location of the drug boss. They start to close in to his location and hours later 30-40 cartel goons are killed and the drug boss killed or apprehended. These type of scenarios or deals create distrust and divisons among the two factions of the Gulf Cartel. Though the Gulf Cartel has been prove resilient from fragmentation and infighting and I give credit to the well established they are in Reynosa and Matamoros, the close knit relationship between the bosses keeping informants to a minimum(several drug bosses and catpians have been waked for being presumed informants, Metro 3 was most probalbly wacked becasue he was being suspected as an informant) and the contacts or steady supply of coacaine and drugs that keep new playeers from rising and taking advantage of the opportunity. If the Gulf Cartel had theri bosses more widespread then it would of surely suffer from divison, infighting and eventually fragmentation like the other cartels (I'm looking at you Sinaloa).

Now the reason why there is so much violence is that the cartels started to scarmble for political connections for protection to move their durgs loads/shipments safely once the 80 rule of the PRI party ended with the election of PAN president Fox in 2001. As the cartels started to expand beyond their headquarters seeking political connections to move their loads and establishing new drug routes, creating competition and conflict for the limited amount of available political connections available and inevitably for wars for those newly established drug routes. (The PRI has always allowed the drug cartels to operate as long as they kept the violence at a minimum. Hundreds died in between the Sinaloa and Gulf Cartel wars but things were about to get much worse with the election of president Felipe Calderon. When Felipe Calderon was elected he sent 60,000 soldiers to combat and dismantle the drug cartels just as the cartels started to expand and barely trying to establish themselves in the new turf. To combat the overwhelming force of the federal government the cartels started to evolve and recruit a lot of people. The cartel's membership exploded from a couple hundred to thousand and thousand over the next couple of years. Just as the local and state cops were being corrupted and infiltrated by the cartels. Eventually the 60,000 soldiers and federal police were being bought off for protection and muscle. Protection and muscle was available for the highest bidder. Some cartels had more protection than others and the cartels used their connections against each other. All of the this creating the shit storm we see in Mexico. Informants, betrayals, past grudges, shady deals with the Mex and US governments, DEA , corrupt cops and politicans siding and betraying some cartels has created instabliliy in the Mexican underworld thus creating a lot of violence in result of that.

What about "Tom mix" santora? Or Christie "Tick" Furnari? Gas pipe casso had a pinky ring worth I believe $100,000. Tony Salerno had a gambling racket that brought in an "estimated" tens of millions of dollars a year easily. Carmine lombardozzi as many have said made a lot too. Any possible estimates on how much he made?

Lana is his wife. Did anypne read the book she wrote?

I think Marcello is up there when it comes to most money. Remember Nola was basically his and there was no competition. South America and its plentiful supply of Marijuana and Coke is only a two hour flight out of New Orleans. He had intersts in the Vegas Casinos, not to mention the Casinos he owned in Cuba before they got shut down. He had poker machines and slot machines throughout the state as well as every racket pretty much locked down in the state.

His family is very well off, They own a 6,000 Acre estate down here and countless other properties.