I think that the mafia will not return certainly at the golden age in which had a monopoly on the concrete and garbage disposal and controlled las vegas, but given the situation in Italy, it is more likely that the American Mafia restore the old bridge with Italy recruiting new zips, not only from Sicily, but also from campania and the other regions of the south.Strax maybe is right in view of what is going on in detroi twho knows if the Detroit Partnership will have some advantages.

Hello Furio, You're right. America needs more Zips. There were a lot of good men here in America from Naples and a couple other Cities in Southern Italy.
My Grand Parents came from Potenza. Both sides.
Ciao for now.

Ivy attrition won't take it's toll in this situation NYC still has a very large recruitment base. There will always be guys willing to step up. However that being said I do think they're going to dwindle into a lesser organization. But that's going to take a long time

The Italian Americans who are in their 20's and 30's today are almost all 3rd and 4th generation. There are plenty of them, but most of them want better things in life. There are more Italian American college graduates in this country than any of the other other Western European immigrant groups (except the for Wasps, and they really don't count as immigrants). So why should they choose crime? Unless that's all you think Italians are good for?

The recruitment base is dwindling, Joe, and attrition IS taking its toll on the mob in NYC, whether you want to believe it or not. I'm not one of these guys who gets on his geographical high horse and mocks out of towners, but living in Cape Cod all your life you have no idea what these neighborhoods looked like 30 years ago compared to today.

The mob will always be around because crime will always be around. But it will never be what it used to be.


That's exactly right, Sonny. The wiseguys know that things aren't so bad right now, but if they test the feds with murders and an aggressive rebuilding they'll be grabbing a tiger by the tail. So why rock the boat?

And besides, just because the feds put out stories in the media stating that they're easing up on the mob doesn't mean anything. They could be giving them a false sense of security. I don't trust the government as far as I can throw them. Also, they don't need nearly as many agents today because of the advances in electronic surveillance. If a guy as brash as Gotti became boss today they'd put him away even faster.

Pizza Boy, You are a very realistic and sharp guy. I commend you.

The mob can regain its power back if they can get back political influence and more people who believe in the code of Omertà.

That's what I meant with status quo. But if attrition takes its toll, then what? I don't see what the feds gain with the complete destruction of the Five Families. They will simply have to battle other groups with the same amount of manpower. The status quo they have reached is probably the best they can achieve.

Better to have some form of controlled organized crime than a fragmented, disorganized criminal underworld.

I would say 5th generation. The majority of Italians settled in the United States between 1890 and 1920. The generation of John Gotti was already third generation.

No doubt, Sonny. I was being kinda liberal with that statement. I mean, I'm 54 years old and I'm the second generation in my family born in America. All four of my grandparents were born in Italy. That makes my kids third generation and my grandkids fourth generation. And my family got here at the end of that time frame (right around 1920).

Like you said, the overwhelming majority of Italian American families came here between 1880 and 1920. That's a fact. So if your family was on the early side of that time frame, your kids are 5th and even 6th generation today. In other words, they're American, they've assimilated, hopefully they're educated, and they're less likely to see any upside in the mob life. And more importantly, they don't NEED the mob life. That's the main difference. Fifty or sixty years ago there were some guys who had few other options. Today that isn't the case.

Thanks, buddy. But I ain't so sharp. I'm just a lot older than most of the other board members here .

you seem clueless

Short answer: no.

THIS IS WHY ITS CALL MY OPINION!

I talked to an FBI agent while down the shore last year (friend of the family) and he said although the mafia will never be what they once were, they are def on the rise because law enforcement is so focused on terrorism.

The only people getting any benefit or advantages off of whats happening in detroit are the drug kingpins.

That's a fair assessment. But I still say the feds will only let them "rise" so high. Eliminating murder is the key. If they start killing each other like they did back in the day, the feds will turn up the heat in a heartbeat. But that's a double-edged sword. If they stop killing people, pretty soon they're not as feared as they once were, and the whole thing starts to break down.

The older guys that are successful and still on the street are happy with the way things are. The younger guys are probably pissed off because they feel they were born too late and they have no money. It's when these younger dopes start to think they can behave like their bosses did thirty years ago that they'll have a problem. And that thinking is inevitable.

Pizza, will these young guys one day inherit the older guys' rackets or will it die off with the old timers?

Well, in my opinion, the big money "legitimate" things like contracting and construction will go to the younger guys who are related by blood. If you look at the Lucchese and Westside construction guys, they're all putting their sons in those businesses, whether they're in the life or not.

What I'm trying to say is that no up and coming young kid right now is going to make himself millions in the construction racket all by himself. That door is closed. But the kids who are being put in those businesses by their fathers and uncles will hold onto them (for the near future at least).

As far as the bookmaking and shylocking, it will always be around because people want to gamble and people want to borrow money. That's the bread and butter for the blue collar guys in the families. But there's just so much competition and so many rats today that collecting isn't even worth the aggravation half the time.

The rich guys will get richer, the poor guys will have a harder time making a living than ever. Just like in the legitimate world .

And my opinion sir is that you must be 15 or have no real knowledge of the street racket.

PIZZABOY, 100% right on target my friend.
Exactly what has happened in Chicago. That's why Elmwood Park retreated several years ago.
The younger guys/relatives are in legitimate business with some white collar attached to it. Really no different than other shrewd businessmen.

A couple of the unrealistic naïve Fanboys, who don't know anything about the streets, want to argue differently because someone in their local neighborhood bar told them differently. LOL.

As the older guys die off, we might see more murders. enough of the older guys go the whole dynamics will change.

if pigs could use tools then they could build houses!

I WHOLE HEARTEDLY agree with Pizza Boy and Chicago about the white collar shit and guys putting their sons into it to make legit money. I still believe though that once Pops dies though, those businesses and their contracts and profits are ripe to be armed by the next generation of street guys. We have seen it here in Chicago. Ricca's son was ripped off in a scam and recently those old Hanhardt Crew guys broke into Angelo LaPietra's house..I'm sure they won't be easy to arm but nonetheless it's quite possible. Am very curious to see what Cicero does when the old Elmwood Park guys --i.e. the DiFronzos, Andriacchi and D'Amico die off.

pizzaboy summed it up well above. Even the NY families are down from their max size decades ago. And there's also attrition in terms of quality. It certainly takes it toll much slower in New York than elsewhere but it's there.

I'm not saying that the street guys will be SUCCESSFUL in trying to arm the white collar groups, they'll probably mess it up and all get indicted lol as they are not of the same salt as their predecessors..But I think they will try in some fashion..

It still my opinion sometime this sh*t feel like school everyone want to be the COOL KIDS.

Attrition and the RICO law have beat the Mob Families down like nothing else. New York will just take a lot longer.
Smart men like DiFronzo knew when to retreat.
It's all a big poker game on the streets with the FEDS AND SOMEBODY YOU KNOW WELL who might be talking to them.
You got to know when to hold'em and know when to fold'em.

DiFronzo Brothers, Andriacchi, Lombardo (who got unlucky) and D'Amico all understood the Poker game very well.

Lombardo did get unlucky. I'll never understand why Pat Spilotro thought Lombardo could have done anything to save the Spilotro brothers. Lombardo was in prison and couldn't do a damn thing-at least not that time. Who knows? As much as Aiuppa loved Lombardo it may have been the fact that he was in prison that saved Lombardo from getting killed as well in that he was supposed to keep a lid on Tony Spilotro and did not do a good job of it...

they have already dwindled my dude

they have rat infested families

do you understand what that means?

12Th St. That was a possible scenario. Tony was strictly on a tribute set up unlike most other made guys in Chicago who are more in a real partnership set up. Tony ran his street crew anyway he wanted and just gave some kind of reasonable tribute to Lombardo. This is what happens when you lose control over your men.
I don't think Lombardo would have been killed if he were not in Prison. It's very difficult and political to kill a Boss in Chicago.

No, what would have happened is that Lombardo would have had a meeting with Tony and his brother, and at the meeting, Lombardo and some other men would have killed both of them.
This is just hypothetical but my opinion.