letting most of these rats live seems to be punishment enough. It seems like everyone of these guys ends up saying they hate what their life has become since becoming a government witness. they aren't who they are and they can't be who they used to be. they're nobody living in nowhere and living for nothing. It beats jail, but there's always a price

its not impossible to get to a government witness before he testifies like some of you are saying /implying... how soon we forget the "canary that could sing but couldnt fly" a.k.a abe 'kid twist' reles

It was back in 1955, but Willie Bioff got blown up by a car bomb.

Years before, he testified against the Chicago mob- Nitti, Roselli, Ricca, etc... and then went into witness protection. For some unexplained reason, he got a job at a casino working for Gus Greenbaum and blew his cover.

Chickenman, to clarify, Reles had already testified in numerous Brooklyn trials; he was scheduled to appear at the then Lepke Buchalter, Mendy Weiss, Louis Capone murder trial when he went out the window but his previous testimony was more than was sufficient in that case.

What Reles going out the window DID achieve was very convenient excuse not to indict Albert Anastasia for murder, which is a far more complicated story than most people realize.

Also, re: the subject at hand, one correct answer is...

Patrick Penny

a small-time Brooklyn criminal who accidentally witnessed Nino Gaggi & Roy DeMeo hit the Jimmy "The Clam" and Jim-Jim Eppolito in Coney Island on October 1, 1979.

I bet guys, like Joe Massino, were thrilled to trade their prison cells for freedom. Gaspipe would love to trade his cell for witness protection. Gravano is rotting in jail, he's probably kicking himself for continuing a life in crime instead of retiring in comfort. And I'd wager that some of these guys have cash stashed away to live well.

I remember in Goodfellas, when Henry was bitching about being in witness protection. As per his second autobiography, he loved the chance to watch his kids grow up and eating homemade food, compared to being alone in a jail cell. After a while, he stopped wearing disguises and seemed to openly live his life on the run. Even his Mobsters episode showed him as a pretty happy guy.

Thx Littleman. Were there other fed leaks or just mcshane?

Just McCane, as far as Gaspipe's contacts are concerned. Casso was one of the few mobsters to supply info for a pseudo autobiography. That's the only reason the general public is aware of his FBI leak.

I gotta figure other dons had agents in their pocket, but they didn't write books. It's been said that Hoover stayed away from the mob because he didn't trust that he could keep his agents from being corrupted. I don't believe this was just a hunch on Hoover's part- he probably had intel that supported his fears.

Didn't Whitey Bulger have his own FBI guy in his pocket?

Last mob rat whacked was Lucchese Soldier Frank Langano in 07

I beleive dinopoli and maddona egeneered this and we're the driving force behind this
Now whether they're people did it or it was his real brothers who are members of the Genovese and gambino families respectively , who knows

I agree.



...I'd like to hear more about the anastasia-reles story. I know that he became the canary who could sing but not fly once he was going to implicate anastasia but I thought that was what it was. I'm not familar enough to know the rest of the story

Mango, the Hoover isn't that simple; I don't think there's ONE answer but fear of 'corruption' had more to do with the agency's reluctance to use its own men as undercover agents, except, notably, against Communists and, later, the Klan... and blacks, and radicals etc (see COINTELPRO).

You have to remember the Federal Bureau of Narcotics was ALL OVER the mob so you have to look to FBI versus FBN rivalry and ask yourself why the various Attorneys General and U.S. Attorneys didn't prioritize the mob; the Soviet Union and Nazi Germany are two answers...

Mango, re: Anastasia, there were strong possible cases-- including but not limited to murder-- against AA ** before ** Reles came along; neither the Feds nor the state (Brooklyn) did shit, although there were some within the state who thought they should. Thus the death of Reles was sorta the PUBLIC endgame-- it let the then current DA ** pretend ** that if only Reles was still here...

LittleMango, the best inside source I've seen is from The Last Testament of Lucky Luciano. I believe Lucky's version as it involved his family and he was close to Albert.

Albert was in hot water over the murder of Morris Diamond- he was an uncooperative union official, who threatened to go to Tom Dewey. Albert was at the top of Murder, Inc, and gave the order. One of the hitmen, Allie "Tick Tock" Tannenbaum had flipped and had implicated Albert.

Bugsy whacked mobster Harry Greenberg in Los Angeles, because he was considered a threat to flip. At the time, there was a manhunt for Bugsy, as he was in hiding. Reles was a corroborating witness for both murders....so he had to go.

Frank Costello was the acting boss of the Luciano (Genovese) family at the time and went to see Lucky at Dannemora prison. He was seeking approval to whack Reles after explaining to Charlie that it would cost plenty of money. Charlie approved it, but requested that Bugsy come out of hiding and give himself up after all of the details were planned, but before the hit.

Reles was under constant surveillance and Costello needed the cops to commit the murder. The crooked cop in charge was named Frank Bals. He arranged everything and it cost around $50,000, which he distributed. At the time, he was in the room, supervising the events. They hit Reles on the head with a billy club while he was sleeping, and then tossed him out the window. Without Reles as the corroborating witness, the charges/investigations were dropped against both Bugsy and Albert.

Bill O'Dwyer, who was also on the take, conveniently appointed Bals to handle the investigation of Reles' death. Within hours, Bals concluded that no foul play was involved. He came up with several silly theories, such as Reles trying to escape, playing a practical joke, or committing suicide.

Later, when Bill O'Dwyer was the mayor of NYC, he appointed Bals to Deputy Police Commissioner. And Bals was the bagman for the mob, bringing in $10,000 weekly and distributing the cash as he saw fit.

good stuff, thank you.

Didn't Luciano and Costello also get Anastasia off of death row for killing a longshoreman in 1929 or something like that?

With these two incidents being one of the reason Anastasia was loyal to Costello which kept Genovese at bay for at least part of the time after he returned from italy

As far as I have read....yes and yes.

Here is an example of why you dont wach a guy after trial. 1991 Kansas City Missouri, Mob associate Larry Strada testifies against Made Soldier John Mandacina. Mandacina is convicted of illegal gambling and is sentenced to 15 months. Mandacina decided that Strada must die to send a message. Strada is murdered. Of course the hired hitman is caught doing armed robberies, and resulting investigation ends up in life sentences for both John and Charlie Mandacina.

Little Man, great to see some Frank Bals talk here; the guy was no fucking good & O'Dwyer almost certainly had to know it..

One important clarification: a living Morris Diamond was scarcely any threat to Albert; rather, the May 1939 Diamond hit was done to protect Lepke, who was still on the lam from a FEDERAL racketeering retrial (Southern District NY) & also facing further STATE racketeering charges in Manhattan thanks to Thomas Dewey.

For everything that's been written about so-called "Murder Inc.," the relationship-- both business & friendship-- between Lepke & Albert is still rather mysterious.

Though he was, by all accounts, a violent hothead, I also think Albert was more intelligent-- "shrewd" at least, & adept at mob politics than he's portrayed-- at least until the last moment he wasn't.

Another reason for Anastasia's loyalty to Costello was because Frank sponsored him to be the new don of the Mangano (now Gambino) family. After Albert whacked the Mangano brothers, he was vulnerable to be whacked himself. Frank supported Albert's alibi that he was the one being hunted and "if" he killed them, it would have been in self defense. It was because of Frank's power and influence that Albert was promoted to family boss.



Yes, O'Dwyer definitely knew it. As you probably know, O'Dwyer's career was basically bankrolled by the mob, and he was dumb like a fox.

Hitting a 'rat' should be more about deterrence.

If, in old school, its about the famiglia not the individual. Then deterring future 'rats' for the good of the family is more important than preventing testimony in a specific case, that is, saving one member. Shouldnt it?

And Im not sold on averting the 'wrath of the feds'. It's not the 20's and the Feds are looking the other way on 'acceptable' social pursuits (crimes ie gambling, loansharking). If the feds or local can bust a game room, they will. This perception they're looking the other way is dated.

So, hypothetically, if Massino was hit. What the feds would bust a whole bunch of members that they're currently letting practice crimes daily? Bullshit.

If the feds or local or whoever CAN bust your ass, they will.

SO, why not hit Joey? They cant bust what they cant prove. And they WILL bust what they can. Whether Joey's hit or not.

So why not hit him? (Or Paciello or one of the hero's they can find)

You're going to get done on what they can prove anyway. Why not throw in a deterrent?

This is about the family, not you after all.


Just mulling.