While it wouldn't necessarily surprise me if Cleveland only had two members left, I've seen 8 living guys said to be made -

1. William "Billy" DeNova/71
2. William "Billy D" Dileno/75
3. Joseph "Joe Loose" Iacobacci/62
4. John Iorillo/68
5. Ronald Lucarelli Jr/53
6. John Oliverio/59
7. Russell Papalardo/70
8. Anthony Velotta/70

I've seen the same things on Clevelandmob.com and other forums. Through a lot of our research with federal law enforcement, Dileno, DeNova, Iorillo, Lucarelli Jr, Oliverio and Velotta were never made. Lucarelli was a drug dealer and the rest of the guys missed any chance of being made when Peanuts was indicted...Licavoli was indicted in 1982, Peanuts Tronolone took over in the late 1980's but did so from Miami Beach (Peanuts and Tony Salerno were very close and the Genovese Family represented Cleveland on the commission). Peanuts was indicted for selling stolen jewelry to an undercover cop and he never named a boss because everybody was dead or in prison. Joe "Loose" Iacobacci was said to have been "a self proclaimed" boss of what was left...basically, he and Papalardo were the last two guys made by the old regime who were all locked up by now and Lonardo in WITSEC...Pittsburgh muscled in on most of their illegal activities after the bust but "NOBODY" except for Joe Iaocabacci himself and a few associates viewed him as boss, regardless of what is reported on some website. If anything, RJ Papalardo would have been promoted before Joe Loose as Loose was a real whack job, crazy, unreasonable and had an arrogant sense of entitlement. I've had this debate with several other guys on RD, and none of their claims about the other guys proved true. People don't realize that Salerno, Gigante and Benny Eggs were the key guys for Lonardo and Scalish. When Licavoli was "surprisingly" named boss by Scalish (which is still debated that he actually named Licavoli Boss) as Maishe Rockman, Scalish's brother in law, said that was what he wanted on his deathbed, everybody knew that Angelo Lonardo, Scalish's other brother in law did not get along with Rockman and that Rockman knew if Lonardo was made boss that he would have been phased out of the casino skim because Lonardo didn't believe that Rockman should have had the power he had within the family because he was not Italian.

I've seen Pogo list those guys as made so I tend to take it at face value. But whether it's 2 members or 8 members, it doesn't make much difference at this point. Either way the family is defunct.

All due respect to Pogo...I have many more contacts and have specifically researched Pittsburgh/Cleveland/Youngstown for several authors in that region. It has been confirmed by LE at the state level, local level, FBI, DEA, IRS and the AG as well as FBI files on several guys. If anything, Tony Liberatore would have assumed control when he got released as he was the "senior" member under the old regime with "a ton of power" within the Teamsters, a position his son still holds today. Lib knew it was over when he was released. If Cleveland still had 8-10 made guys, it still would have been similar in size to Scranton when they had 6-10 guys left in 1994 after Bufalino passed away, and therefore, "some" activity would have been going on. RJ Papalardo is selling real estate right now for his brother (actually lived across the street from Jimmy DiMora). Loose was spotted in Little Italy a few weeks ago, but lives in his parents house in Mentor.

Assuming what you're saying is true, up to at least 2010 there were 4 members; the other two being Peter Sanzo and Joseph Gallo.

Once again, indictments have always been few and far between in Detroit, since the beginning of time -- or should I say, since the beginning of heavy FBI scruiteny on Italian OC (late-70s/early-80s).

The heaviest amount of (prosecuted) "activity" occurred in the early-mid 1990s, which is when the local FBI seemed to put the most pressure on the family. In 1994, they asked the majority of the family (with their lawyers) to come down to HQ to simply have their pictures taken.

There has been only one "Detroit Mafia" trial in the history of the U.S., and that WILL be the only one. It resulted in jail sentences tantamount to a drunk driving accident, and an acquittal for the consigliere. Any additional cases brought forward will be treated like ordinary criminal cases.

As I've said before, I do not believe Detroit has 45-50 made members. I, myself, believe it to have just over 30 made members, and that includes shelved guys. I posted the 31 figure in a different thread on this forum. They've survived at this size for more than 30 years.

The thing that I don't understand is why you want to keep stating your viewpoint on Detroit over and over again. Considering your points about the family are splattered across virtually every forum spanning more than half a decade, additional posts are pretty much pointless. Outside of the recent RD threads, Detroit-related threads are hard to sift through on account of the constant back-and-forth bickering between you and other members. It'd be totally fine if you had something new to say, but you never do. Bear in mind, if you know you're right, you'd ignore Detroit-related threads, and chalk up the persons who believe that Detroit is still viable to be nothing but fools. I know some people enjoy arguing over the internet, and that's one thing -- but the same subject, over and over again? Doesn't it get old?

Technically, yes, Gallo, but he was serving a life sentence...I was referring to made guys on the street, should have clarified that. Sanzo is a mystery as Licavoli used him as a safecracker but thought his temper was too volatile...confirmation has never happened on Petey Boy...but it may have been possible depending on who you talk to.

I thought John Iorillo died?

Yeah, he passed away around 2-3 years ago I believe

Think it was in 2010, same year as Petey Sanzo.

There is nothing even close to resembling an Italian neighborhood in metro Detroit, let alone an Italian community.

White flight from the city happened so rapidly and so completely that for the most part the suburbs were just thrown up from around the 50s and 60s on; it's milquetoast city--strip malls and houses in every direction, spread far and wide.

I'm sure there are still a few old guys languishing around but in terms of traditional rackets people in Detroit wouldn't even know where to get a juice loan; the network of blue collar watering holes and neighborhoods that traditionally support these like bookmaking just doesn't exist these days.

The possible exception is downriver which happens to be exactly on the other side of the city from where the Italians settled.

A couple times people who grew up with these guys have come on this forum and laughed at people who think the mob in Detroit is still going strong, but no one seems to listen to them.

It's like saying the mob is still kickin' ass in Schaumburg.

Obviously, Ronnie Carabbia is still alive and living in Sarasota, FL for 6 months of the year..not active, but still alive.

How much time did Carrabia do?

Ivy pretty much summed it up.



Erm, when I condescend? Who called who 'Genius' now then?

Whats the word Im looking for here.... GOT it, Hypocrisy.

You may want to look that up (THAT was being condecending )



Wasnt aware I had changed my opinion. IF there is any vestiges of activity its by aforementioned geriatrics and kiddy soldiers, in dem dere burbs.



Yup. Hearing you there.

I can think of two occasions: one was recently, and it was quite obviously a troll (the poster didn't even get any of the names right).

The other instance was years back on a different forum, which was a poster claiming he knew much of the hierarchy from business meetings. He claimed that the "list continues to get smaller" with every generation, which wasn't necessarily untrue.

There is only one credible Detroit (insider) poster in existence, and he posts occasionally on the RD. He has said nothing to discredit Scott, other than to treat his charts as speculation. Which is the truth. Scott has said himself that some of the people he's listed may not be made. And I've said it time and time again, I do not believe Detroit has 45-50+ made members. And for the record, you don't need that many members to have a viable, formally-structured family.

As for Italian neighborhoods, there is a very high population of Italians within many of the suburbs in Macomb County (east side). Much of the membership has resided within this particular area for more than half a century. From Grosse Point (northeastern Wayne) all the way up to Shelby Township (central Macomb).

Judging by your post, I can tell you haven't spent much time around here.

As for their recruiting pool, it is their own families. That's the way it has been with Detroit since it started. I can only think of one made member alive (David Aceto) who isn't related to other (living or deceased) members by blood or by marriage.

Basing your stance on Ivy/Wiseguy, is your personal choice, I certainly wouldn't call it the correct, open minded side.

I think I may have misunderstood your argument, I still disagree with it lol.

I agree with Macomb, I personally don't think there is 50+ made guys on the street in Detroit, but I honestly believe they have remained at 30-40 made guys, a number that seems to have stayed consistent over the last 20-30 years.

Top heavy, I agree, but that has been the design since day one. The Street Boss slot, and Counselor Emeritus roles have been designed to do two things, insulate and protect. And it has been successful, two bosses in the past 75 years, and only two years behind bars. Regardless of one's stance on the topic, that is quite the measure of success.

And what can I say? Hypocrisy rules the world

Chicago has 30 guys per the feds and it is a very solid number, and if you tried to bullet point every single arrest made over the last 20 years for every associate, family member, old fogey, vaguely related person you would be talking about a document that is hundreds of pages long.

As these boards have shown time and time again, though, you can't disprove a negative.

Upped for anyone interested

Top 5 Well-Known Mobsters Headstone (Detroit Crime Family) #thecriminalunderworldcompilation