Stop focusing so much on gays and abortion

Pope Says Church Is ‘Obsessed’ With Gays, Abortion and Birth Control
By LAURIE GOODSTEIN
Six months into his papacy, Pope Francis sent shock waves through the Roman Catholic church on Thursday with the publication of his remarks that the church had grown “obsessed” with abortion, gay marriage and contraception, and that he had chosen not to talk about those issues despite recriminations from critics.

His surprising comments came in a lengthy interview in which he criticized the church for putting dogma before love, and for prioritizing moral doctrines over serving the poor and marginalized. He articulated his vision of an inclusive church, a “home for all” — which is a striking contrast with his predecessor, Pope Benedict XVI, the doctrinal defender who envisioned a smaller, purer church.

Francis told the interviewer, a fellow Jesuit: “It is not necessary to talk about these issues all the time. The dogmatic and moral teachings of the church are not all equivalent. The church’s pastoral ministry cannot be obsessed with the transmission of a disjointed multitude of doctrines to be imposed insistently.

“We have to find a new balance,” the pope continued, “otherwise even the moral edifice of the church is likely to fall like a house of cards, losing the freshness and fragrance of the Gospel.”

The pope’s interview did not change church doctrine or policies, but it instantly changed its tone. His words evoked gratitude and hope from many liberal Catholics who had felt left out in the cold during the papacies of Benedict and his predecessor, John Paul II, which together lasted 35 years. Some lapsed Catholics suggested on social media a return to the church, and leaders of gay rights and gay Catholic groups called on bishops to abandon their fight against gay marriage.

But it left conservative and traditionalist Catholics, and those who have devoted themselves to the struggles against abortion, gay marriage and artificial contraception, on the defensive, though some cast it as nothing new....

I'm liking this Pope more and more (not that I disliked Benedict or the others, tho I really like John Paul). While I'm certain the church won't change its stance on certain major issues, THIS pope is at least encouraging people to accept/love,not judge... something lacking this days.

Btw, I heard he just bought a used car from a Priest. He's opting for that instead of the Popemobile.



TIS

Pope Frank is following in the footsteps of Jesus. He is spreading a message that is passionate, charitable and recognizes the dignity of the individual, while embracing the words of Jesus, Love One Another As I Have Loved You. He's shaking up the aristocratic old farts in the church. Go Francis go!

BTW, this Pope also has a Twitter account (I hear in several different languages). How cool is that?



TIS

I too am liking this new pope. He is more focused on helping others than discriminating against them

Yes, the quote on the news this morning said something about a merciful God, which was a VERY refreshing change.

Church has never been "obsessed" with these issues, it's the modern western society that's obsessed with so-called "gay rights" at the moment and thus the media always point out what the Church says about homosexuality and present it as controversial. Catholic Church is a huge organisation with many members all over the world so it's not hard to find these "controversial" opinions seeing as there are thousands of priests and laymen who comment on modern problems from Catholic perspective, but it has never been an "obsession". Of course, the general public is not interested in what Catholic intellectuals and clergymen write about theological issues because hardly anyone knows much about basic Catholic theology, yet alone more complex issues. No one knows anything about Benedict XVI's theological views, most people only know that he was allegedly a "Nazi", "against gays" and "conservative". In reality, his views on social issues weren't that much different from what Francis I is saying (that includes views on homosexuality), but it's the media that portrays Francis I in more favourable light and tries to present him as some sort of "liberal". The only real difference is the approach to the masses and that -as the article points out- Francis doesn't want a smaller purer Church. But even here it has to be said that Benedict XVI had this vision for Europe, not the world in general. Church's position in Europe is complex and IMO it will need a radical change in its modus operandi here sooner or later.

I've been reading about Catholic social teachings through history a lot and this homosexuality issue was never one of the most important things. It's only recently that there's been more talk about that because it's the obsession of modern West and the Church has an opinion about this just like it has opinions on many different issues. Church can't isolate itself from what's going on in society. "Gay rights" are just the latest fashion of modern liberal Western "political correctness". Before that it was the Jews and holocaust and the public was moralizing how "anti-Semitic" the Church was non-stop, how it was "obsessed" about Jews etc. Before the Jews it was the Catholic "opression of women for 2000 years" and before that it was the Church's reactionary position and its alleged support for the "elites" against proletariat and things like that (when communist ideology was strong). It's always something that anti-Catholic modern West accuses the Church of being obsessed with, as if this was the main goal of the institution, to fight against this or that minority.

The truth is that the Catholic Church always played a positive role in Europe's history and history of the world in general. I'm not really religious, but for me the Church is the greatest institution ever. I'm much more sceptical about liberal and socialist ideological fanatism that's been present in Europe for some centuries now and has created wars and totalitarian regimes than I am about Catholic Church and its teachings.

There is something to say about both sides here (religion v. lgbgxcfdvx community) that as a society, we are obsessive of about 3% of the population. Yes, according to a pew study 3% of the population was gay, yet about every show, every political issue, every PTA is centered around this stupid issue.

The spiritually immature will always pit love against obedience. Be loving and understanding is one thing. Accepting and condoning sin is another. Love the sinner but still hate the sin. You're not loving or helping a sinner by telling them their sin is no sin. You're just lying to them and telling them what they want to hear.

Let's be honest here. A lot of people in this thread want to see this Pope and the Catholic Church completely do away with it's teachings on homosexuality and abortion. Or at least ignore them to the point where the result would be the same.

People often forget that, after Christ did not condemn the woman taken in adultery, He told her to "go her way and sin no more."

God is a God of both justice and mercy. But mercy can never rob justice.

Those men you very disrespectfully call the old farts of church are ones who put him in the position he holds today. They have buckled under political pressure. Maybe he has also, or maybe he had these views all along.

No multigenerational human institution has always played a positive role in history.

I think it's important to realize what the Pope said and didn't say. He didn't change church doctrine. He affirmed it. But just as there is a church position on homosexuality and abortion that is delighted in by many on the right, there is also a church position on war, the death penalty, sharing and economics which is often overlooked by many people across the political spectrum. The church would be doing itself a grave disservice if it allows either its supporters or critics to reduce and distort its message to "gays and abortions are evil".

A great deal of this is spin, and not a doctrinal change. The Church's right wing was getting too rigid, and was turning people off. In the USA there are bishops who were telling people to vote republican in the last election. Clearly things had gone too far.

If you look at what this pope has said, he has not changed the doctrine of the church, nor will he. He is simply stating a basic fact..."You may hate the sin, but you must love the sinner." Judgment is up to God. It is certainly a refreshing and appropriate way to look at things, and it will get him some popularity. I doubt it will reverse the decline in church attendance in the west, however.

Suck my cock.

Nice

Typical.

For the comic-loving Catholics:

I liked JP II even though he was conservative I still thought he was a good Pope.

WTF? The Church did, for one. Also, just to give an example, Roman Empire (in Europe we'd be still trying to eat stones if this empire didn't exist). States in general are multigenerational human institutions. But I suppose it would be better to still live in caves, marxist equality and all that, "state is evil"...

Slava you bring up good points, however lets not forget the papacy did a lot of wrong too, especially in the Middle Ages and inquisition period.

Nice op-ed piece about Pope Francis's first year today by John Cavadini.

The Francis transformation

How the Pope has changed the church

By John C. Cavadini / NEW YORK DAILY NEWS

"Buona sera. Good evening.” With these simple words exactly one year ago, the newly elected Pope Francis greeted the crowd in St. Peter’s Square.

Although the whole world, through the media, had its eyes riveted on the balcony overlooking the square, Francis chose a greeting specifically for the gathered throngs. In his native Argentina, it was afternoon, and in Australia, it was morning, but in Rome it was evening, and so: “Good evening.”

Paradoxically, the whole world, watching and waiting, was charmed. We received his greeting as our own. Everyone felt the warmth of words that were not addressed to an abstract collective, but to real people who had stood in the rain all day.

The recognition of personal presence and appreciation for it, though necessarily tied to one time and one place, is a universal language that everyone understands, and it touched everyone’s heart.

This greeting nicely sums up Francis’ first year as Pope and the significance of his accomplishments. One of Francis’s oft-cited accomplishments is effective outreach to the media and use of mass communications. But to be more precise, Francis is less interested in “the media” than in the person in front of him who is asking questions.

This person, to Francis, is not an instrument of access to the world, but is irreducibly a person whose questions are always deeper than what is needed for a news report. But because Francis speaks not to a media outlet but to a person whose company he enjoys (as he once remarked), everyone else feels personally addressed, too.

Many of Francis’ accomplishments can be listed. They include an insistence on institutional reform in the church; his overhauling of the Vatican system of finance to enhance accountability; his establishment of a commission to improve the church’s pastoral care of victims of sexual abuse; his establishment of a commission of cardinals to oversee further reforms, and initiatives toward world peace. These include his plea for a day of fasting and prayer in the context of a threatened U.S. intervention in Syria. The dramatic response to his plea surely shifted the burden of proof to those who would escalate the conflict.

But Francis’ significance is misleading if it is catalogued so simply. For this Pope, the Gospel is first and always an encounter with a person, the crucified and risen Jesus. This means that the individual can never be subordinated to an abstraction or group but commands the love and mercy attendant on his or her dignity as a human being.

This is the soul of Francis’ accomplishments, enabling him, in one short year, to accomplish the one thing that is most difficult, almost impossible, and yet most needed, in our highly secular age, and that is to have established himself as a credible spiritual leader. And as such, his appeal extends both to Catholics and to persons far beyond the boundaries of the church.

Francis did this partly by reminding the church that it does not exist for its own preservation. “I prefer a church which is bruised, hurting and dirty because it has been out on the streets, rather than a church which is unhealthy from being confined and from clinging to its own security,” he wrote in the Evangelii Gaudium released last year.

He did this partly — and again paradoxically — by deflecting attention from himself as Pope, as spiritual leader, embracing instead a “sound decentralization.”

Above all, he did this by insisting that the church turn itself back to its basic message, one that “would actually reach everyone without exception or exclusion,” emphasizing “the essentials, the most beautiful . . . and at the same time most necessary.”

Encountering the person of Christ focuses attention especially on the poor, those who are always on the edge of depersonalization and exclusion: “I want a church which is poor and for the poor,” he said, one “touching the suffering flesh of Christ.”

Contrary to many reports on his tenure, Francis did not disown any of the church’s moral teachings, even the more controverted ones — but, like Pope Benedict XVI, he reminded the church that a decontextualized list of “don’t”s inspires no one.

He told us to stop being sourpusses. “Why not turn to God?” he asked, convinced that an openness to the transcendent could even bridge the separation between the economy and the common good. And, insisting on the rights of the unborn, he also reminds us we must assuage the misery that often prompts people to resort to abortion.

Perhaps people today, even those hostile to the church, are always half hoping that such an ancient institution with a claim to spiritual wisdom could actually have some wisdom that could speak anew. Francis’ major achievement is that, beginning with a simple “Good evening,” he has showed, convincingly to many, that this is true.

Cavadini is a professor of theology and director of the Institute for Church Life at the University of Notre Dame.

Read more: http://www.nydailynews.com/opinion/francis-transformation-article-1.1719646#ixzz2vsDy58f9

i wonder if this guy is gonna try to clean up the place and get rid of the pedophiles

what? is he goign to going to your mom's place and kick you out?

good one.

In all seriousness Pope Francis has been a major positive since he took the papacy. He's even touched the minds of those who aren't Catholic. For example I still keep in touch with my old history professor, and he's a fervent atheist and critic of religion. But he emailed me a couple months back saying how he likes that this Pope is more focused on helping others than putting them down. And even better, he's doing it while not changing church doctrine. It's a win-win situation.

you should be ashamed of yourself

turning a blind eye is the reason countless of lives have been altered or ruined

That's the key, Joe. He's been so effective that some have actually been fooled into thinking this guy may change the Church's position on gay marriage and abortion. That's not going to happen. But he has preached love and acceptance about these groups. And it is, like you say, a win-win.

I love this guy!

Mmm...it's a tricky thing. People thinking he does want to change the church's position on these things is a problem. There'a a lot to be said about perception. And let's not forget that, if they can't get the church to change it's doctrine altogether, the next best thing for people in favor of abortion and gay marriage is to get him and the church to minimize the importance of speaking out against those things. Put it so far on the back-burner that the church might as well change it's doctrine. It's easy to see through their motives in all this. The church, as well as all religious institutions, can help people and show love while still calling sin a sin. Telling people what they want to hear, and saying sin isn't a sin or not that big a deal, isn't helping them at all but simply feeding into their delusions.

That's a fair point, Ivy. My main point was that those changes are never going to occur, regardless of all the non-Christians jumping on the Pope Francis bandwagon and wishing they will. Because the hard truth is, if the non-believers start falling too in love with this guy, he's probably failing the faithful. It's a bit of a Pandora's Box. But I still love this guy .

I agree with PB. He makes some solid points on here.

Lots of good posters here. Welcome aboard, Mikey .