I'm 1/8 Indian, I can call myself Indian or Native American if I want. Would you want me trying to tell you what you can call your heritage? You can call it what you want just as I can. Here in the South the term Native American doesn't apply. You're either White, Black, or are an Indian.

I'm a white guy plain and simple. I'm Irish, English and German. You had one great grandparent who was Native American so what? That has about as much significance as Elizabeth Warren claiming she was part Native American. And besides when has the south been the best judge of labeling ethnic groups?

This name should not be changed. People should stop bitching and get over it

Nope, other than when they moved. But no other team in the NFL employs a name that was used as an ethnic slur.

Quite a few college and high school teams have changed nicknames, including St. John's, who used to be the Redmen and Stanford, which was the Indians. The case to change names is especially compelling in academic institutions, which strive for higher standards of integrity than the sole commercial interests of a professional sports league.

I have no problem with the Seminoles, Illini, Utes and others that honor the heritage of the indigenous tribes that populated the lands, on which their respective universities exist. But when your name is Redmen or Redskins, you can't seriously advance the argument that you are honoring the tribes.

If you keep the name Redskin (which happily isn't used outside the context of the NFL today, go ahead it's your right. But don't pretend it's anything more than a derogatory stereotype.

I remember there were complaints about the Atlanta Braves team name too, probably still are.

Dixie if your 1/8th American Indian and you live in a area with a Indian owned casino i think you might be able to collect from it. I forget the details though, and i could be wrong about that but i think i remember reading something about it at one time.

I remember Donald Trump was bitching about how little indian you had to be to get a Casino license years ago for a Indian owned Casino and he infamously said :

"THEY DON'T look like Indians to me and they don't look like Indians to Indians"

klydon you hit it on the head. Teams like Florida State have the backing of the Seminole tribe as they honoring the heritage of the Seminoles in Florida, not calling them a Redskin like they are in Washington. That is what people are missing, being called Redskin is the same as a black person being called a ni**er. It is just as offensive, but as I said earlier since there are not many of us around it is o.k. for us to be called a derogatory name.



Yes you are correct. It actually depends on the tribe, as our tribes don't own a casino. Like you said with the Trump quote, most will sell out to someone with money in order to bankroll a casino. It's all about the money these days.

And JoeSchmo get a damn clue bud. I had way more than "one Grandparent" that was Indian. I had way more than one Grandparent that was full blooded. So before you try to discredit me you should know what you are talking about. It's ignorant people like yourself that think you know what you are talking about on one subject when you don't have a clue (as in this case). You know nothing about the Native Americans other than what you read in a book, it would be like me telling you that you aren't German.

There have been sporadic complaints about Atlanta's use of the tomahawk chop. But the Indians and Braves and KC Chiefs don't get complaints about the nicknames.

The Indians have received complaints about the logo- the cartoon Chief Wahoo. They are currently reviewing it, probably due to the controversy over the Redskins.

The Cleveland Indian logo has been the subject of controversy from time to time. In the 70s some people complained. I think it's a typical baseball logo of the time where the logos are cartoonish. The Orioles' bird that looks like a smiling duck, the chubby Padre are a couple of other cartoons.

Speaking of nicknames in baseball, the 50/60s were a gentle time with unimpressive names like"Padres, Angels, Mets, Astros, Expos, Brewers, Twins...

Remember the short-lived name - the Seattle Pilots? Why Pilots?

It was to recognize the aircraft technology industry centered in Washington state. After one season they moved to Milwaukee and realized "Pilots" had no logical connection with the new city, so they honored the local industry that dominated its new home and renamed the franchise the Brewers.

There is another name that if it originated today would cause controversy with MADD.It's interesting that Milwaukee's local football team, the Packers, are also named to honor laborers and workers in a local industry.

Yes but Newcastle are named after the magpie cos it is black and white like our colours, not because we wiped them out and dumped the survivors on reservations but then let them have casinos to keep them sweet!!!!!

This is true, Klydon, that the Indians logo controversy does not stem from the recent debate about the Redskins name. The logo has been under attack for 50-60 years. I remember walking into Jacobs Field during the 1995 World Series to a fair number of protestors. They were against the Braves name and the Indians logo.

During the past few years, the Indians have quietly moved away from the Chief Wahoo logo in response to the complaints. In its place they use a script "I" or a "C" on most of their ballcaps. While I might have not cared 20 years ago, I now will not wear a Chief Wahoo logo because I realize that it upsets some people.

And now, to add a little light-heartedness to this serious discussion, leave it to The Onion:

Washington Redskins Change Their Name To The D.C. Redskins

@dixie mafia

good that you are trying to educate people, but some are just too far gone.

when you read comments from people who are more than likely ethnic whites (and the history of discrimination in THIS country against non wasp whites) and yu get the impression that they are saying that YOU are wrong for challenging something that YOU find offensive...it's almost comical.

either people aren't remotely aware of the history of THEIR ethnic white immigrant ancestors HERE or they just are parroting the words of other people

I agree. It would be just like me saying ni**er is not racist to Black people, how would I know? If one tells me it offends his race then I respect that, just like I would respect someone who sees my side of the coin when someone says Redskin. One of my Grandmothers was living a simple peaceful life here, what did she do to be called a redskin? All she did was raise her kids and Grandkids that were abandoned by her sorry son (one of my full blooded Grandfathers as was his Mother and the Grandmother I'm talking about) and was killed in her home by a tornado in 1951. And she is like many Indians that lived peacefully, but because people like Ivy watch some stupid ass movie that shows Indians as hostile and it is someone he has never seen face to face before, he chooses to insult them even more. That is what pisses me off is ignorant ass people like that. To everyone else here I enjoy the discussion.

@dixie

I question your decision to use another slur, in ANY context, in a thread about derogatory ethnic slurs.

You might think it's making your point but it's defeating it...unless you just like writing certain words.

Your overall point is taken though.

Yeah blame the white guy as usual

@dixiemafia I apologize if I undermined your heritage. I don't believe myself to be completely ignorant of Native American history at all. But please if there's anything I don't understand feel free to enlighten me, and I don't mean that sarcastically.

Look it's no secret whites (especially the WASPs) were not so kind to immigrant groups coming in like the Irish, Italians, Polish, Russians, etc. However, last time I checked I'm not racist and neither are many whites in this country, in fact we're in the majority now. Every immigrant group in this country including the WASPs had to struggle for success, and that's what this country is about: hard work. No one deserves a free ride.

But to summarize, I still don't think the name should be changed. Only because I have a soft spot for the old NFL teams, not because I support the term 'Redskin' as a use for a Native American

touche

@joeschmoe

You are probably 3-4 generations removed from the immigrant experience. I directly lived it, so save your lectures about what "America is all about"


unintentionally comical.

It wasn't a shot at you pal. It was to everyone who lives here. Immigrant or descended from the 1600's, you work hard to earn what you have because no one's going to give it to you on a silver platter (unless of course it's the government). Remember the thirties when government aid was a foreign concept to people? That's what I want to see

I don't believe the earth is 6,000 years old either. That belief stems from so-called mainstream Christians not understanding their Bibles.



One of the rare times I disagree with him. Change it because of simple decency? Most people don't give a hoot about the name. It's only a relative handful of loud, obnoxious, whiny liberals who choose to make it an issue.



Well, since there is no Redskin tribe, the team doesn't need the backing of anyone.



"Educate" = i.e. indoctrinate with PC bullsh!t.

You are right, although I was just using it to prove my point. Wasn't trying to use it any other way.




Once again your ignorance shines. I've made my point, if you want to continue these ignorant posts then go ahead.

@joeschmoe

I figured that you were referring to me because you can't be talking to dixiemafia.

You injected the issue of Native tribes and casinos though I didn't and don't see the relevance to this thread.

Dixie stated that he is not the member of any tribe which has land casino deals.

So your point about America being about hard work and no freebies....means what exactly? and relates to the issue of this NFC East team's logo/name how?


@Ivy

you sound like a parrot. for once, stop repeating line for line the sentiments of your favorite columnists/talk show host and speak your own words.


For sure, there are instances of incidents /issues that I would consider members of groups that I belong to, over-reacting or reaching.and issues that I think should absolutely be exposed and resolved.


I have opinions about issues incidents involving other ethnic or racial groups, or women...but I'd never be arrogant enough to tell a member of an outside group what SHOULD or shouldn't offend them.

I respect myself, so I show respect to other people.

The Atlanta Braves, The Kansas City Chiefs , and The Washington Redskins will all change their names and announce this over the next week or so.



First the Atlanta team will now adopt a logo of a caveman like figure holding a baseball bat rather then a club. This will honor the early stages in the evolution of man.

The formal name of the team will be "The Atlanta Homosaphiens: but for short they will be called "The Homo's"



The team from Kansas City did not want to take any chances offending a group of people so there new logo will be a bird, a big fighting black rooster. They also decided to remove Kansas City from the name. They will be simply called "The Big Black Cocks"



Finally the team from the capital will adopt an animal as its new logo and also change the city name from Washington to the shorter version. The logo will be a fierce Racoon wearing a football helmet. In 2014 the NFL will welcome "The DC Coons"



This should help relations with all Native Americans going forward

Actually that was me that brought up the Indian Casino's. Not meant as an insult in any way. Dixie stated he was part American Indian and i just commented that i thought he might be eligible to some benefits if he was in an area that had one of those casinos.

The quote by Trump was i think meant to voice his opinion that it took very little actual Indian bloodlines to be able to open a casino on reservations or wherever. I don't recall what the actual percentage needed is but i think it's pretty low. But i'm not positive on that.

This is Legendary!

Don't worry, it was not taken as an insult. I know what you meant by it. To be eligible for federal tax breaks one only has to be 1/16 I think.

ok thanks, my error..just trying to pinpoint what joeschmoe was getting at.
Trump is a bully and a blowhard. and generally full of it.
here is Trump parroting politico-talk and getting exposed
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3ACCHxF4Afc



There's an interesting story about Native heritage that I'll write later on.

Again, thanks for clarifying ..my mistake....just misread.

A good friend of mine is 100% Apache Indian and thinks this is a bunch of bullshit. He is "Too much of a man" to be offended over something so trivial. As said above- political correctness gone amuck. There are other things worthy of rage like the "Buffalo soldiers" who mutilated Indian women

gonna call BS on this post.

There are definitely Native peoples and people who do think that this is trivial.No ethnic group or group of ethnic groups all think the same way about any topic. I do doubt that your buddy exists or that you know anything about US military history and Native people.

If you did, the Buffalo Soldiers wouldn't be the first or even the twenty first things you'd come up with.


stay away from google searches and pick some books.