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Re: Is the Mafia just simply a gang?
[Re: IvyLeague]
#747012
11/04/13 06:57 AM
11/04/13 06:57 AM
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Joined: Feb 2013
Posts: 2,213
cookcounty
Underboss
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Underboss
Joined: Feb 2013
Posts: 2,213
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Are you kidding me? Allowed to take place? This isn't Sicily and you're giving them way too much credit. Maybe he means Gambino, Lucchese, etc. wouldn't have allowed themselves to get caught up in a case like that. Of course, I don't believe it. Had they been bosses later on, those guys would have also been right there at the defense table. I thought he was kicked off of the commission because of the "Donnie Brasco" escapade. I swear I've seen one of those documentaries on TV, and either a former FBI agent or some "Crime/Mob Historian said it. Bonanno had been deposed back in the 1960's, long before the Donnie Brasco case. However, the case (along with other reasons) were supposedly the Bonanno family lost it's seat on the Commission for a time. Is this still being debated today? I thought it was later acknowledged that the Chin was actually in charge, and Salerno was the fall guy. There have been a few guys on the forums who have contended that Fat Tony really was the boss, despite all the evidence to the contrary. Personally, I think they just get a kick out of trying to rewrite history. Cafaro told everyone how it really was and he was closer to Salerno than anyone on these forums. And even if people want to throw out what Cafaro said, for whatever reason, there were government recordings that supported Chin being the real boss; including by Fat Tony himself. Yes. I always thought as a whole, the commission ran the country, not just a region. Capeci gave a very good run down of the Commission. You had the original 7 members - the five NY families, Buffalo and Chicago. Most eastern families without a seat were represented by the Genovese family. Most western families were represented by Chicago. From it's establishment in 1931, the Commission would have national influence for about the next 50 years. In the 1960's, the Chicago Outfit started to miss more Commission meetings, which eventually resulted in a "two-headed Commission" with Chicago resolving disputed west of them.In 1961, two additional families received a seat on the Commission - Philadelphia and Detroit. In 1974, Buffalo lost it's seat when Maggadino died. In 1977, Detroit lost it's seat when Zerilli died. In 1980, Philadelphia lost it's seat when Bruno was killed. In the 1980's the New York and Chicago families lost more contact due to prosecutions that brought new leaders who were unacquainted with each other. The Commission essentially became a New York enterprise. total sign of disrespect all 5 families combined couldn't do shit about it
Last edited by cookcounty; 11/04/13 06:58 AM.
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Re: Is the Mafia just simply a gang?
[Re: botz]
#747890
11/10/13 05:22 PM
11/10/13 05:22 PM
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Joined: Jul 2013
Posts: 486
LittleMan
Capo
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Capo
Joined: Jul 2013
Posts: 486
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Often, new mob inductees need to commit a murder before getting straightened out.
Innocent men also get whacked by the mob. It could be a union official that won't cooperate with demands from the mob. Or a sanitation operator that won't play along with bid rigging. Or somebody might be in a position to potentially hurt a mobster in an upcoming trial. Sometimes, a mobster could be in competition over a woman. Many times, a murder entails someone getting double crossed.
I believe the bottom line for both gangs and the mob is they need to kill who they are ordered to kill. Their personal opinion on whether or not the victim deserves to die is not taken into consideration.
You shit-kicking, stinky, horse-manure-smelling motherfucker you! If you ever get out of line over there again, I'll smash your fucking head so hard you won't be able to get that cowboy hat on. You hear me? Fucking hick. -Nicky (Casino)
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Re: Is the Mafia just simply a gang?
[Re: Dellacroce]
#747902
11/10/13 07:03 PM
11/10/13 07:03 PM
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Joined: Oct 2013
Posts: 19
MichaelMussino
Wiseguy
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Wiseguy
Joined: Oct 2013
Posts: 19
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Often, new mob inductees need to commit a murder before getting straightened out.
Innocent men also get whacked by the mob. It could be a union official that won't cooperate with demands from the mob. Or a sanitation operator that won't play along with bid rigging. Or somebody might be in a position to potentially hurt a mobster in an upcoming trial. Sometimes, a mobster could be in competition over a woman. Many times, a murder entails someone getting double crossed.
I believe the bottom line for both gangs and the mob is they need to kill who they are ordered to kill. Their personal opinion on whether or not the victim deserves to die is not taken into consideration. Ralph Dols is a good example of this, law enforcement is supposed to be off limits, but Cacace had him killed for marrying his ex wife. I guess it would be different if Dols was dirty or even if he was having an affair with her while she was married, all the guy did was marry the wrong women. Yes but all those people whacked were associates or involved With The mob in some way. Gangs right now are ordered to shut off Their lights and shoot The first person Who flashes Their brights at Their CAR. The mob doesnt play those ignorant games With civilians.
Last edited by MichaelMussino; 11/10/13 07:04 PM.
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Re: Is the Mafia just simply a gang?
[Re: MichaelMussino]
#747904
11/10/13 07:40 PM
11/10/13 07:40 PM
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Joined: Oct 2011
Posts: 3,571
Scorsese
Underboss
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Underboss
Joined: Oct 2011
Posts: 3,571
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Often, new mob inductees need to commit a murder before getting straightened out.
Innocent men also get whacked by the mob. It could be a union official that won't cooperate with demands from the mob. Or a sanitation operator that won't play along with bid rigging. Or somebody might be in a position to potentially hurt a mobster in an upcoming trial. Sometimes, a mobster could be in competition over a woman. Many times, a murder entails someone getting double crossed.
I believe the bottom line for both gangs and the mob is they need to kill who they are ordered to kill. Their personal opinion on whether or not the victim deserves to die is not taken into consideration. Ralph Dols is a good example of this, law enforcement is supposed to be off limits, but Cacace had him killed for marrying his ex wife. I guess it would be different if Dols was dirty or even if he was having an affair with her while she was married, all the guy did was marry the wrong women. Yes but all those people whacked were associates or involved With The mob in some way. Gangs right now are ordered to shut off Their lights and shoot The first person Who flashes Their brights at Their CAR. The mob doesnt play those ignorant games With civilians. Thats an urban legend, gangs dont really do that.
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Re: Is the Mafia just simply a gang?
[Re: MichaelMussino]
#747905
11/10/13 07:58 PM
11/10/13 07:58 PM
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Joined: Jul 2013
Posts: 486
LittleMan
Capo
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Capo
Joined: Jul 2013
Posts: 486
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Thats an urban legend, gangs dont really do that.
Correct, that's an urban legend. Although I can understand why someone would believe the story to be true, due to LE incorrectly sending out the warning to others. http://www.snopes.com/crime/gangs/lightsout.asp Yes but all those people whacked were associates or involved With The mob in some way.
There are many instances where civilians were whacked by the mob. In the examples I gave about honest union officials and honest sanitation execs- they unknowingly chose death over being associated with the mob in any way. It's not just LCN soldiers and associates that can have civilians killed....mob bosses can be just as guilty. These murders may not have resulted in someone getting straightened out, but still.....Vito Genovese killed a man simply because he lusted after his wife (he actually married her); Gaspipe Casso killed an architect possibly because he didn't want to pay, or felt he looked at his wife the wrong way; John Gotti had a man tortured and killed because he accidentally ran over his son; Lucky Luciano likely had actress Thelma Todd whacked because she didn't want the mob to run a gambling operation over her restaurant, Paul Castellano had his son in law whacked because he was mistreating his daughter, etc... And plenty of innocent civilians were killed simply for being with the murder victim, or were eye witnesses.
You shit-kicking, stinky, horse-manure-smelling motherfucker you! If you ever get out of line over there again, I'll smash your fucking head so hard you won't be able to get that cowboy hat on. You hear me? Fucking hick. -Nicky (Casino)
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Re: Is the Mafia just simply a gang?
[Re: botz]
#747907
11/10/13 08:15 PM
11/10/13 08:15 PM
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Joined: Oct 2013
Posts: 19
MichaelMussino
Wiseguy
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Wiseguy
Joined: Oct 2013
Posts: 19
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The mob doesnt drive down streets and shoot at a supposed target With innocent civilians around. Gangs do it every day and most The time they shoot at The wrong person while taking out a baby. The mob doesnt play that game!
Last edited by MichaelMussino; 11/10/13 08:15 PM.
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Re: Is the Mafia just simply a gang?
[Re: botz]
#747921
11/10/13 09:46 PM
11/10/13 09:46 PM
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Joined: Oct 2013
Posts: 19
MichaelMussino
Wiseguy
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Wiseguy
Joined: Oct 2013
Posts: 19
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Tell me the last time in recent memory the mob has been involved in a drive by in the United States?
Last edited by MichaelMussino; 11/10/13 09:47 PM.
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Re: Is the Mafia just simply a gang?
[Re: botz]
#747971
11/11/13 12:29 PM
11/11/13 12:29 PM
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Joined: May 2013
Posts: 653 Illinois
F_white
Underboss
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Underboss
Joined: May 2013
Posts: 653
Illinois
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The mafia is a gang with structure.
From now on, nothing goes down unless I'm involved. No blackjack no dope deals, no nothing. A nickel bag gets sold in the park, I want in. You guys got fat while everybody starved on the street. Now it's my turn.
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Re: Is the Mafia just simply a gang?
[Re: StLguy]
#747987
11/11/13 01:58 PM
11/11/13 01:58 PM
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Joined: Jul 2013
Posts: 486
LittleMan
Capo
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Capo
Joined: Jul 2013
Posts: 486
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I don't know if he really meant that the mob doesn't kill innocents as much as he means that they don't kill randomly. They also don't kill anybody based on what color t-shirt they're wearing. As far as gangs killing randomly, the headlight flashing story was an urban legend. And your typical civilian in a neighborhood isn't killed every day based on the choice of his shirt color. We must be talking about a period of a gang war and the shirt color or football jersey helps identify rival gang members. There's been plenty of LCN mob wars, also. As far as drive by shootings, the Al D'Arco biography refers to one. That doesn't prove that it happens all of the time, nor does it prove that it never happens.
You shit-kicking, stinky, horse-manure-smelling motherfucker you! If you ever get out of line over there again, I'll smash your fucking head so hard you won't be able to get that cowboy hat on. You hear me? Fucking hick. -Nicky (Casino)
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Re: Is the Mafia just simply a gang?
[Re: LittleMan]
#747997
11/11/13 03:14 PM
11/11/13 03:14 PM
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Joined: Oct 2011
Posts: 3,571
Scorsese
Underboss
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Underboss
Joined: Oct 2011
Posts: 3,571
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I don't know if he really meant that the mob doesn't kill innocents as much as he means that they don't kill randomly. They also don't kill anybody based on what color t-shirt they're wearing. As far as gangs killing randomly, the headlight flashing story was an urban legend. And your typical civilian in a neighborhood isn't killed every day based on the choice of his shirt color. We must be talking about a period of a gang war and the shirt color or football jersey helps identify rival gang members. There's been plenty of LCN mob wars, also. As far as drive by shootings, the Al D'Arco biography refers to one. That doesn't prove that it happens all of the time, nor does it prove that it never happens. a more fair comparison would be to compare them when the mob was at its most violent i.e. 70s-early 90s. Theres actually quite alot of violent activity that harmed innocent civilians along the way, although i think that most of it was tied to mob business, and people were just in the wrong place at the wrong and then some random acts too. Also i think that since they had influence over police and courts in certain areas i think they probably had violent crimes covered up during those times.
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Re: Is the Mafia just simply a gang?
[Re: botz]
#748070
11/12/13 12:09 AM
11/12/13 12:09 AM
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Joined: Jul 2013
Posts: 486
LittleMan
Capo
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Capo
Joined: Jul 2013
Posts: 486
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It's interesting how many lcn bosses and higher ups have ordered the murders of civilians.
Two more examples are Anastasia having Arnold Schuster whacked, and Genovese/Galante having Carlo Tresca clipped.
You shit-kicking, stinky, horse-manure-smelling motherfucker you! If you ever get out of line over there again, I'll smash your fucking head so hard you won't be able to get that cowboy hat on. You hear me? Fucking hick. -Nicky (Casino)
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