Pretty discusting.. story

Another tragedy.

Although, I'm sure not as bad as those 'nasty' marines who kill their enemies instead of "restraining them"... :rolleyes:

Yes, it makes so so sad. The first (beheading)one was a big deal in the news, now I fear it's just something "accepted" as part of this horrible and unjustified war.

Poor poor guy!!! I heard that he was trying escape, but don't know if that's true. My heart goes out to his family.


TIS

I agree that the American soldiers should get next to or no greif for that, considering what their enemies mighr do to them if they were prisoners.

What don't you understand? TIS is right. This type of thing is just becoming a standard. Nobody worries when they hear "black hawk down" anymore. When the paper says there's been another car bombing, it's just another bold headline and people casually skip over it to see the stock quotes. The casualties in this war have just become numbers now instead of people. The humanity is lost and that's when a war truely becomes extremely dangerous.

Not as bad? It's all bad, death anywhere in any war is bad. You have become so accustomized to death and casualties in the war, one death is now different than another to you. It's all bad because it was NOT nessesary. Granted I believe the beheading of innocent civilians is much more devistating than a soldier who is killed in combat. These soldiers are there fighting an unjust war and their deaths are more than tragic, but when innocent men are BEHEADED for helping out, that's when it crosses the line.(Not that it already hasn't in my opinion)
Think about that, the man, with a family, begged for his life and had his HEAD CUT OFF! And you think thats not "as" bad. I reiterate, it's ALL bad.

Doctor Ferro

Marines Thread

Get around the forum much, "Doctor?"

Don Ferro,

You totally misinterpreted Double-J's post. You need to go and read the original thread regarding our Marines' shooting of the enemy. Then you will understand that Double-J was being very fesicious in his post. And rightfully so.


As TIS said, these beheadings are horrible, these killings are horrible, and because of the daily "play by play" the media does on this war, it is making many immuned to the horrors that are taking place. As for it being an unjust war, that is totally another issue that I will have to discuss with the Lovely TIS face to face over a "CUTE LITTLE BLUE " drink! ( I love ya no matter what TIS! ) But one thing that we all should and I think do agree on, if your for the war or against it doesn't matter, because we ALL must support the soldiers and mourn at the horrible losses & beheadings that are ocurring at the hands of our terrible enemies.

TIS, President Bush sent me an e-mail and asked me to tell you " Don't EVER take sides against the family again!"


Don Cardi

JJ,
I just started posting again on this site a couple days ago and did not realize you were refering to this thread. I've never seen it before. I understand now, and am very sorry for jumping to a conclusion. I thought you were implying that the beheading was different to another death in a bad way, so naturally I was offended. I'm sorry for jumping to conclusions and hope to prove you wrong on many of your other beliefs.

Now back to business.

Doctor Ferro

An atrocity, and if anybody watches this on the Net intentionally, I have nothing but immeasurable disrespect for you.

But what was Bigley even doing there in the first place? He didn't deserve to die, but he simply should not have been there anyway.

Mick

It's very sad for the family and all of us -- and pretty pathetic that they have to resort to such barbaric tactics.

But on a lighter note - I must be a bit dyslexic, cuz when I first read this subject I thought it said actor Ben Kingsley and I was like WHAT??

And what are you drinking tonight?


Don Cardi

Not likely, but I commend you for being so steadfast and dedicated towards your goal, however impossible it may seem.

I find it odd how they took their time with this guy but killed the Americans as soon as they could. -Pat

Could be because they hate us.

That is true, but it's also an indication that Brits are indeed more lovable than Yanks. :p

Mick

That is true, but it's also an indication that Brits are indeed more lovable than Yanks. :p

Mick [/b][/quote]Not really, I would rather be beheaded FASTER then slower. I mean, who wants a slower death as it is?

They held him for longer, but the death itself was just as quick. Big difference. Though I agree, in Bigley's position, perhaps it would be better for him if they spared him the anguish and got it over with quicker without false hope.

Can't tell from your post whether you missed my joke, but just in case you did, it was a joke. I don't want to be part of a debate on whether Bigley was killed faster or slower than the American victims, so I'll stop here. :rolleyes:

Mick

I know it was a joke, I just thought you ment the speed of the beheading, and I got confused on why a slower death would be better.

This was just awful. Over the weekend there was mourning accross the country, especially in Ken's family's city of Liverpool.

Apparently, Ken had managed to escape with the help of one of his guards who he had befriended. He had also (allegedly) acquired a gun when he made his bid for freedom. Unfortunately he didn't get far and his captors caught up with him after about 30 minutes and subsequently beheaded him. Such a horrible, appauling, degrading and humiliating way for someone's life to end. I'd prefer it if they just shot me in the back of the head and got it over with, if I was in that situation.

I don't know why he was kept alive longer than his American colleagues - perhaps the kidnappers thought they could bargain with Tony Blair? Pretty unlikely considering the female scientists they wanted freed are being held by Americans and not the British...

We did all get our hopes up though - the British Muslim council even sent a delegation over to Iraq to appeal to the kidnappers.

My thoughts and prayers to all Ken's family.

I have a hard time understanding the outrage expressed here over a beheading. Is it the act of the beheading or the circumstances of the victim? With respect to the act of beheading; it may seem barbaric, but I don't see it as any different than suicide bombers attacking people eating in a restaurant. Different weapons, same intent. You could even say that about computer-guided missiles.

Humankind has not advanced since the days of caveman when it comes to resolving differences. Only the choice of weapon has changed in some cases.

Keep in mind that most Westerners who are there working are making $1,000 a day or more. They know the risks.

A thousand dollars a DAY for MOST people. Where did you see that? A could believe a few people, here and there doing high risk jobs or super special jobs, but most? Hell, if that is true you may just see some of our low paid people from the boards taking off for a few weeks and filling their pockets so they can buy Videos, CD and concert tickets. Or even money for a new car.

And this somehow makes it right that they are brutally murdered?

I guess Nicole Brown Simpson knew the risks, too. :p

Don't take it out of context, he didn't say it was right. He merely said it happens every day in the world; just the way people get killed are different and he mentioned they were told it is dangerous to go there but they accept the danger because of a good pay. Personally, if I ever get a US or UK citizenship; I make sure never in my life go to Iraq thereafter. Heck, even with my own nationality right now I have a hard time imagining how I can dare to there.

Couldn't agree more MaryCas, well said.

It doesn't matter. These people are still trying to make a living and put bread on the table. There are people where one of my parents works who have a choice of being layed off or going to Saudi Arabia or some other middle eastern office.

So before we say, "well, they know the risks," let's also consider this is murder, and these aren't military casualties, these are civilians.

I don't think when the US military accidently hits civvies that you would say, "well, those people knew the risks."

They live there too.

Those people are breadwinners, doing their job, and trying to stay safe. Some are unfortunately not successful.

MaryCas,

Your point is well taken, that both ways that they murder is definately brutal. No question about it. But just think of something for a second; If you are working or walking and a bomb blows up, you are not expecting it and therefore it does not work on your mind. Not to say that it is not a horrible way to die or suffer, but it hits you when you are not expecting it, and therefore you have no time to think about it. Now consider being tied up, held for days and being told that your head is going to be cut off! That is pure torture! It's got to make your mind crack knowing that someone is going to slowly cut off your head. It must be very painful both physically and mentally. I don't think that anyone was actually trying to say that a beheading is brutal and getting blown up is not. But I do think that what is trying to be said is that a beheading is slow torture and is a horrible way for a person to KNOW how they are going to slowly be killed.
Bottom line, all these acts of murder are barbaric! Remember, we are dealing with animals anyway, and they deserve to lose thier souls!


Don Cardi

Don't tell me how it is to be laid off from a job, I was laid off myself from my job while I was in the US and I went through the headaches. If I had to choose between going to Iraq or Saudi Arabia and still be able to get a good pay to maintain my life or in my case going back home or even working in a restaurant for $20 a shift, I would still choose not to go to Iraq or Saudi Arabia and that's my personal opinion.
I don't think when all people are trying to solve their conflicts with war there ever be safety in a place. A murder is a murder to me and unfortunately there are so many civilian casualties from the both sides you have to mourn for ever if you look at each one of them.

Afsanech77,

Where is your home actually? Are you now in Iran? Are you originally from Iran?


Don Cardi

Don Cardi, I'm Iranian, I was born, raised and went to school in Iran and right now I'm back to Iran.

I just did.

I find it arrogant to think that people somehow reduce the ideology of these murders by saying "people knew the risks."

I find it even more arrogant that when Iraqi civilians get killed in an air raid, and don't get me started on that, you say well they were gotten killed in the process that we were trying to give them freedom. Is that freedom in the vocabulary of those who support war? I even find it more terrible to see Iraqi people had to be there. It's going to be two years that they have to live in that chaos. It was their home. But I sure don't have to be there and I feel so blessed because of that and I'll never think of going there for a second. A murder is a murder and if you don't understand it, it is just fine, because if everyone in this world was understanding there never was such problems.