3 registered members (Ciment, joepuzzles234, 1 invisible),
1,154
guests, and 33
spiders. |
Key:
Admin,
Global Mod,
Mod
|
|
Forums21
Topics43,337
Posts1,085,999
Members10,381
|
Most Online1,245 1 hour ago
|
|
|
Michael's Bodyguard and Fredo
#746767
11/01/13 04:26 PM
11/01/13 04:26 PM
|
Joined: Nov 2009
Posts: 466 Stewartstown, PA
VitoC
OP
Capo
|
OP
Capo
Joined: Nov 2009
Posts: 466
Stewartstown, PA
|
In Part II, when Michael is in Cuba, Fredo comes to see him with the suitcase full of cash. He introduces himself to Michael's bodyguard, who doesn't shake his hand until Michael appears to tell him that Fredo's his brother. Does this make any sense? During this period of crisis, would Michael really have a bodyguard who was such a stranger to the Corleones as to not even know who Fredo was?
Let me tell ya somethin my kraut mick friend!
|
|
|
Re: Michael's Bodyguard and Fredo
[Re: Turnbull]
#747081
11/04/13 04:07 PM
11/04/13 04:07 PM
|
Joined: Jul 2006
Posts: 343 North America
Mr. Blonde
Capo
|
Capo
Joined: Jul 2006
Posts: 343
North America
|
Michael using that bodyguard was part of his plan to deceive Roth. The bodyguard clearly was a hired gun, from outside the family. If Michael had used Neri or Rocco, he would have signaled Roth that he didn't suspect them of involvement in the Tahoe shooting. He wanted Roth to believe that he was still in the dark. True, Michael at that point hadn't completely ruled out Neri and Rocco as being complicit, but he wanted to prevent Roth from making any assumptions. Outstanding point and one I have overlooked up till now. Amazing how I still pick up new things in these movies (with lots of help from the posters here)
|
|
|
Re: Michael's Bodyguard and Fredo
[Re: Turnbull]
#755194
12/23/13 10:47 PM
12/23/13 10:47 PM
|
Joined: Feb 2003
Posts: 15,030 Texas
olivant
|

Joined: Feb 2003
Posts: 15,030
Texas
|
I really don't think Busetta considered it a suicide mission. And that raises another point: Michael obviously left Cuba without Buscetta--but did he know he was dead when he ordered his plane to leave? Or, did he have some agreement that Buscetta was to meet him at the plane by a certain time, and if he wasn't there, the plane would take off without him? I can't see Michael knowingly leaving Buscetta behind--he looked like the kind of guy who'd stop at nothing to avenge himself against Michael if that happened. Is that really true about the bird? I'll have to watch for that next time. I'm not sure why Michael had a plane ready to fly him out. He knew about his and Roth's intended assassinations, so why did he attend the reception? He couldn't know that Castro was on the doorstep nor could he have known that Roth's murder didn't take place. However, he should have realized that once in the Palace, Batista could have had him locked in. Why not fly out before the reception?
"Generosity. That was my first mistake." "Experience must be our only guide; reason may mislead us." "Instagram is Twitter for people who can't read."
|
|
|
Re: Michael's Bodyguard and Fredo
[Re: olivant]
#755466
12/25/13 01:26 PM
12/25/13 01:26 PM
|
Joined: Oct 2001
Posts: 19,694 AZ
Turnbull
|

Joined: Oct 2001
Posts: 19,694
AZ
|
I'm not sure why Michael had a plane ready to fly him out. He knew about his and Roth's intended assassinations, so why did he attend the reception? He couldn't know that Castro was on the doorstep nor could he have known that Roth's murder didn't take place. However, he should have realized that once in the Palace, Batista could have had him locked in. Why not fly out before the reception?
Michael knew that he had to have Roth killed before he (Michael) left the Presidential New Year's Eve party. He also knew that SIM ("Batista's Gestapo") would regard him as the prime suspect when Roth's body was discovered--because Roth had engaged SIM to have Michael assassinated following the party. Michael's attendance at the party was his attempt to establish an alibi. Of course, SIM would pay no attention to legal or diplomatic niceities if they'd grabbed Michael. So, he had the plane on standby to get him out quickly. I think he was counting on just enough delay in the discovery of Roth's body, and general New Year's Eve street mayhem, for him to be seen at the party and to get away to the plane inconspicuously. Once he was back in the US, the alibi would help him if the Cuban government demanded he be extradited for Roth's murder.
Ntra la porta tua lu sangu � sparsu, E nun me mporta si ce muoru accisu... E s'iddu muoru e vaju mparadisu Si nun ce truovo a ttia, mancu ce trasu.
|
|
|
Re: Michael's Bodyguard and Fredo
[Re: dontomasso]
#755529
12/26/13 12:39 AM
12/26/13 12:39 AM
|
Joined: Nov 2013
Posts: 98 New York, NY
Questadt
Button
|
Button
Joined: Nov 2013
Posts: 98
New York, NY
|
He was so focused on killing Roth that he decided to smother him with a pillow. Wouldn't a quick and silent throat slashing have been more effective -- or if he knew he was on a suicide mission anyway, why not just shoot him a few times at close range? He must have been trained by the same Corleone ally who found the "twins" in Part III. IMO, the fact that Roth was already in hospital, incapacitated with a stroke, gave Buscetta a perfect opportunity to murder Roth while making it look like a natural death. Since hit men are generally trained to stay "under the radar" and avoid calling unnecessary attention to themselves, I can't see Buscetta passing up an opportunity to smother Roth with a pillow, rather than slashing Roth's throat - unless for some reason Michael had wanted to send a particularly bloody message. For that matter, there were even quicker and more effective methods available to Buscetta, had he been prepared to use them - such as injecting Roth with a poison or with a substance that would stop his heart, or introducing such a substance into Roth's IV drip. Since autopsies were not automatically conducted in 1958/59 in the absence of obvious evidence of foul play or other unnatural circumstances, there is every likelihood that those in Roth's circle would simply have assumed that the stroke had finished him off.
Last edited by Questadt; 12/26/13 12:40 AM.
"A lawyer with his briefcase can steal more than a hundred men with guns."
|
|
|
Re: Michael's Bodyguard and Fredo
[Re: Turnbull]
#755532
12/26/13 12:52 AM
12/26/13 12:52 AM
|
Joined: Nov 2013
Posts: 98 New York, NY
Questadt
Button
|
Button
Joined: Nov 2013
Posts: 98
New York, NY
|
I really don't think Busetta considered it a suicide mission. And that raises another point: Michael obviously left Cuba without Buscetta--but did he know he was dead when he ordered his plane to leave? Or, did he have some agreement that Buscetta was to meet him at the plane by a certain time, and if he wasn't there, the plane would take off without him? I can't see Michael knowingly leaving Buscetta behind--he looked like the kind of guy who'd stop at nothing to avenge himself against Michael if that happened. For that matter, why use Buscetta at all for the hit on Roth? Since Buscetta had been publicly seen shadowing Michael as his bodyguard throughout Michael's entire visit to Cuba, any capture or killing of Buscetta in the attempt would automatically and directly implicate Michael. And Michael just seems far too calculating and careful to ever leave such a contingency unmet.
Last edited by Questadt; 12/26/13 10:36 AM.
"A lawyer with his briefcase can steal more than a hundred men with guns."
|
|
|
Re: Michael's Bodyguard and Fredo
[Re: Questadt]
#755575
12/26/13 12:16 PM
12/26/13 12:16 PM
|
Joined: Feb 2003
Posts: 15,030 Texas
olivant
|

Joined: Feb 2003
Posts: 15,030
Texas
|
For that matter, why use Buscetta at all for the hit on Roth?
Good point. But what is even more curious is how did Michael intend to assassinate Roth. As he told Fredo, Roth will never see the new year. Well, when Michael told him that, Roth was not hospitalized and there were no plans to hospitalize him. So, where and how was Roth's murder to take place? I disagree with TB about the timeliness of Michael's escaping Cuba by plane. There was no reason for Michael to attend the reception because once there, he could not be assured of being able to leave. You might also notice that Michael's departure from the Palace seems to be prompted not by a prearranged plan, but by Michael's assessment of the military situation from what Batista was saying. In addition, I don't see why Michael would have to have an alibi of any sort regarding his whereabouts during Roth's murder.
Last edited by olivant; 12/26/13 12:16 PM.
"Generosity. That was my first mistake." "Experience must be our only guide; reason may mislead us." "Instagram is Twitter for people who can't read."
|
|
|
|