Also, KC was indeed a power player with full backing from Chicago, which can't be discounted at all. However, after the Vegas skim was exposed, KC lost their clout in a hurry.

Pittsburg was a powerhouse till around the late 1960's when their power was being challenge by New York commission, mainly because of the conflict Pittsburg was having with Cleveland.
The same thing about New Orleans, It's power reached west to Navada, it also had Houston Texas, Dallas Texas was it's own family and not part of New Orleans as many have claimed it was part of New Orleans. Reached north to Arkansas, and southern Missouri which pissed of Kansas City and St. Louis crime families. To the east with Biloxi Mississippi, Mobile Alabama and almost Georgia, but that pissed off Tampa. Both Pittsburg and New Orleans had tremendous power and influences in union's both local and national, as well as city and state officials from coast to coast.

The Commission was finally able to regroup it's self and power after Joe Bonanno left New York and promised to never interfere with LCN business for the rest of his life. This allowed the commission to concentrate on other matter in the country, to where they stopped both Pittsburg and New Orleans crime families influences in the late 1960's.

After that Milwaukee became a powerhouse outside Chicago and New York. It's power and influence reached to Minnesota, northern Michigan, northern Iowa, Manitoba and Ontario Canada. It also had officials and unions from coast to coast till Balistrieri went to prison. It should be noted that other La Cosa Nostra members in other families have claimed that if Balistriere had not gone to prison, that he would have been giving a seat on the Commission.

Great point, but the Pittsburgh-Cleveland conflict/war didn't begin until late 1977 to early 1978. And keep in mind that when Pittsburgh emerged as the uncontested dominant family in that region, they assumed total control of all of Northeast Ohio, in particular, the entire greater Youngstown area and all of Trumbull County, Erie, PA and Jamestown, NY as well as the entire panhandle of West Virginia.

Milwaukee was as strong as any family when Frankie Bal was in power, but once the casino skim ended and Frankie went to prison...they were finished.

San Francisco under Jimmy "The Hat" Lanza can't go unnoticed. Granted, they were small and didn't yield much influence outside their geographic territory, but Lanza ran an empire while in control and had the uncanny ability to funnel much of his illegal proceeds into successful legitimate enterprises. SF was not on a scale like KC, Milwaukee etc., but New Orleans and Tampa wewre similar as their power didn't have long reaching tentacles.

Cleveland fell apart after Scalish died and that goof ball Licavoli took over. Rockman was running the show while Licavoli took all the licks.

Then after the whole Greene war there was literally nothing left in Cleveland, then big Ange flipped and BYE BYE.

Another tidbit about the strength of Cleveland was the Mayfield Road Mob consisting of some of the most powerful gangsters in the country with Tony & Frank Milano overseeing Moe Dalitz, Morris Kleinman, Louis Rothkopf, and Samuel Tucker who organized Buckeye Enterprises through which they operated laundries, casinos, and nightclubs. Both groups profited from the relationship. In 1949 when Dalitz and his partners built the Desert Inn gambling casino in Las Vegas, the Cleveland family protected the casino from shakedowns by other Mafia families and was rewarded with a 25% portion of the unreported casino profits. The income helped support illegal gambling, bookmaking, loan sharking, and labor rackets in northern Ohio.

It always struck me as very odd that Scalish didn't initiate any new blood prior to his death. The guys Licavoli made were incompetent (meaning Joe Iacabacci and RJ Papalardo).

Not sure why guys like Scalish, Marcello and other bosses from smaller crime families stopped making people.

I guess maybe they were satisfied with what they had accomplished and financially as well.

They were old and could care less about where there crime family would end up when they were gone.

Obviously New York stayed out of it if both families did make members after they were gone.

JCB, the Cleveland/Pittsburg war did not start till the late 70's, but both families were having conflicts with each other beginning in the mid 60's.

Lanza was a powerhouse family boss. I did not mention him as, this topic was asking, Defunct Families-who was the strongest? With everything combined, not only the boss, but the other family members and territories it held as well as what they were able to earn.

Lanza was a powerhouse in age what he live to 103 years? LOL.

Totally agree. Although there were certain conflicts in the mid 60's, Lonardo and Mannarino (both underbosses) had a mutual respect for one another and both tried to keep the peace through Pasquale "Patsy" Feruccio, known as the longtime liaison for Pittsburgh/Cleveland. He was from Canton, OH and considered the country's leading video poker expert/innovator.

Buffalo or Detroit



All those families above are defunct. There's no formal structure or consisting ongoing activity. Some members still living doesn't mean the family isn't defunct.

I don't think tge Kansas City mob is defunct , there have been recent charges brought against Vincent civella and a member of the camissano family

There seems to be some mob activity in Kansas City KANSAS CITY, MO—Beth Phillips, United States Attorney for the Western District of Missouri, announced that six defendants were sentenced today, in separate but related cases, for their roles in a $3.5 million illegal gambling business that relied on a Web site with a computer server located in Costa Rica.

Gerlarmo Cammisano, also known as “Jerry,” 57, Vincent F. Civella, 53, Michael C. Sansone, 31, Anthony V. Sansone, 28, and Michael V. Badalucco, 27, all of Kansas City, Mo., and Charles J. Simone, 26, of Liberty, Mo., were sentenced in separate hearings before U.S. District Judge Nanette K. Laughrey.

Cammisano was sentenced to 14 months in federal prison without parole. The court also ordered Cammisano to forfeit $201,137 and two computers to the government. Civella was sentenced to eight months in federal prison without parole and ordered to forfeit $40,000 to the government.

Simone, Anthony Sansone, Michael Sansone and Badalucco were each sentenced to three years of probation. The court also ordered Simone to forfeit $10,000 and a laptop computer to the government and pay a $5,000 fine. Simone’s probation includes four months in a halfway house and four months of home detention. The court also ordered Michael Sansone to forfeit $4,039 and a laptop computer to the government. Michael Sansone’s probation includes six months of home detention. Anthony Sansone must also pay a $5,000 fine. Anthony Sansone and Badalucco’s probation includes three months at a halfway house and three months of home detention.

On April 28, 2010, Cammisano pleaded guilty to leading the illegal gambling operation. Cammisano oversaw the gambling business, which involved the management of nine other defendants (eight bookmakers and one manager/supervisor). The illegal bookmaking business was organized and started by Cammisano and others in March 2006, and resulted in gross wagers of at least $3.5 million.

Civella and Simone each pleaded guilty to conducting an illegal gambling business. Michael Sansone, Anthony Sansone and Badalucco, who were bookmakers in the illegal gambling operation, each pleaded guilty to the charge of transmitting wagering information in interstate or foreign commerce.

Bookmakers provided their bettors with a 1-800 toll-free telephone number and two Web sites. In order to place a wager on a sporting event, the bettor would call the number or access the Web site, then provide their account number and password. Bookmakers used a separate 1-800 toll-free telephone number, or the Web site, to track their bettors’ activities and account balances. Bookmakers paid out or collected cash in person from their bettors, usually on a weekly basis.

Yeah, a gambling bust. Since 2000, there have been gambling busts in in other cities like Pittsburgh and Detroit. But it doesn't mean there's still a formally structured family there that is recognized by the feds. More like the remnants of a defunct family.

Yeah , I think the only properly structured families left , the five families , buffalo, Detroit , New Jersey and possibly Philadelphia and Chicago

They would be the 5 NY families, New Jersey, New England, Philadelphia, and Chicago.

Detroit is arguable at best. I tend to think not.

Buffalo wouldn't be on that list.

I forgot about the patriarcas , I thought the Detroit mob was doing quite well

There are people on these forums who insist on perpetuating that idea but I don't think it's the case. There seems to be disagreement among mob experts regarding Detroit. That alone could justify someone going either way with that family. But the relative lack of cases in recent years, when compared to other remaining families, suggests the family isn't plugging along like many believe (or want to believe). Even if somebody wants to include Detroit on the list of remaining families, it would certainly be last on the list. And the New Jersey family may not be far behind.

The last known case was a Rico one in 2006 , I read recently the Detroit mafia is alive and well and the toccos r relinquishing power and r priming Jackie the kid giaccone for the boss spot

Yeah, the 2006 case was basically your typical mob gambling and loansharking case. It was not nearly as big as the one a decade before, in 1996.

What you read may be the article entitled "Organized Crime in Detroit: Forgotten but not Gone." It was written by author Scott Bernstein who happens to post on another site. He can think and claim what he wants but this is the guy who's Detroit charts have showed up to nearly 60 members in Detroit, when there was only half that at most said to still be living back in 2001. You'll also notice much of that article has to deal with the past. Bottom line, we have seen consistent and ongoing mob cases involving families in New England, Philadelphia, and Chicago. Why not Detroit?


"...though most experts agree that its (the Mafia's) operations are now largely confined to its traditional bases in the Northeast and Chicago."
http://online.wsj.com/news/articles/SB10001424052748704115404576096392318489246

I know very little about the smaller Families outside NY. So I find this thread extremely interesting.

Yeah I agree with what your saying , but in Detroit is it not possible the Detroit mob has stayed under the radar because they have pretty much stuck to traditional mob staples , the administration it's said is pretty much insulated by a 3 man panel pretty much the same as the Genovese family and what the gambino family have recently adopted , I've spoke to scot burnstein a few times on twitter regarding the Detroit mob , he says the numbers have been diminished and r nowhere near 60 , perhaps half that but they r still very much active

I appreciate all of your enthusiasm on the topic and we could all argue all day about Detroit, Buffalo, KC...but let's focus on the original topic.

Ivy League, I've always respected your opinion and overall knowledge on LCN nationwide and I agree about Detroit...but I'm sure out of the former families I listed, you will provide a well thought out, plausible case for the strongest defunct family.

Domwoods, Ivy League is 100% spot on in regards to remnants of now defunct families. My thread is specific to who the Federal Government considers defunct.

Feruccio was pulling out his hair when ever those two families started bickering, especially over Youngstown, OH.

I did not include Buffalo, NY, Detroit, MI, or Kansas City, MO cause I do not consider those families defunct just yet, but Kansas city is on its way as I believe one of its members died this year, making the numbers of made men in that family drop from 23 to 22. Of the 22 remaining, 4 are retired, 4 are in prison, and 2 more are planning on retiring in the near future, which with bring the family down to having only 12 active members soon in Kansas City.

I have heard Buffalo has 40 to 50 made men. I don't believe that. I would put them as having around 30 made men, with only about two thirds still active in the family.

Detroit is the same for me as well.

For which of the defunct families was strongest, I will say Pittsburg as LaRocca did sit on the commission in the 1950's, and the family held territories such as JCB has stated above.

If we include Buffalo, Detroit, and Kansas City, then I will say that Buffalo hands down was the most strongest of the defunct families ever.

Is this topic about defuct families or families we think are defunct lets get back to the original topic.

Up to Henry

I think it's futile for people to come up with their own definitions of what is considered a viable family. That simply leads to people arguing over every family that has a single member still breathing. I tend to go with those families the feds recognize - the 5 NY families, New Jersey, New England, Philadelphia, Chicago, and maybe Detroit.

If people want to include Detroit on the list of families still viable, then I would say Buffalo is the answer to your original question since that family seems to be no longer recognized by the feds.

If you don't want me to include Buffalo either, but only look at those families you specifically listed, there really isn't one that stands out among the others. There are some that obviously wouldn't be in the running - Denver, San Francisco, San Jose. I wouldn't include Rochester, Rockford, and certainly not Des Moines either. And not even Milwaukee, St. Louis, or Los Angeles.

So, by process of elimination that leaves Pittsburgh, NE Pennsylvania, Cleveland, Kansas City, New Orleans, and Tampa. I think a good argument could be made for any of these.

Please stop with your misenformation campaign
The FBI clearly says the Detroit family is viable
I quote the head of the FBI organized crime unit
"they are still a very viable family, they are cloaking themselves in legitatment business , now more than ever, but im not saying there doing legitament business"-Lou Fischetti(FBI organized crime unit

Keith corbett federal prosecutor in detroit in 2009
Theres no reason to beleive there's been a sedation in there activities that have generated income for them over the last 100 years"

I'll quote FBI.gov
"the LCN is most active in the the new York metropolitan area,Parts of new jersey , philadelphia,Detroit, Chicago and new England. It has members in other major cities and is involved in international crime"

But to the actually defunct families in the late 80s it would have been Pittsburgh ,
In the golden age of the mid 50s It would be between Cleveland, KC,Pittsburgh, Wilkes barre and new Orleans. Because of the size of the family being about 50 members and the wide and varied interests that they had not just in Cleveland but Akron , Trumball and Youngstown, Ohio. They owned the Desert Inn in Las Vegas with Kleinman and Dalitz and they were a major player in the teamsters not just locally but nationally through William presser and because of this the Cleveland LCN Family was the strongest family In that Golden Age of the mid 50s

My misinformation campaign? You're the guy who claims the Outfit has pull with President Obama through their union connections.

Anyway, I've repeatedly said there seems to be disagreement among experts regarding the viability of the Detroit family. I've listed quotes before that didn't include Detroit on the list, which you of course ignore. Since there is disagreement, one would be justified in going either way. What makes me lean towards those who wouldn't include Detroit is the relative lack of mob cases there for over a decade now. And I don't accept any of the lame, feeble excuses people have made to explain away this fact. Nor do I accept Detroit charts showing inflated membership posted online.

And with all due respect to Fischetti and Corbett, even more than what officials say, I value what they do. They can say a family is still going strong but if that doesn't result much in them actually bringing forth ongoing cases, one can't help but question things. Especially if that continues over an extended period of time.