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Re: Crime & Justice
[Re: Lilo]
#752435
12/09/13 02:44 PM
12/09/13 02:44 PM
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Joined: Apr 2006
Posts: 11,797 Pennsylvania
klydon1
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Joined: Apr 2006
Posts: 11,797
Pennsylvania
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Moreover, if the judge is allowed to override a jury's collective deliberations and verdict and substitute his own whenever it is different, why even have a jury hear a penalty phase of a death penalty case.
Thx, Klydon. Historically, what is the reason/argument for letting judges set aside verdicts? The jury is one of the important checks on the power of the state. It places the power of determining the facts of an alleged crime or controversy into the hands of the people, who are deemed more likely to render an unbiased determination of facts than the state. Judges are permitted to disturb a jury's guilty verdict if the verdict is against the great weight of evidence presented. The judge's overturning of the verdict is, of course, subject to appellate review. There is no historical justification, which allows a judge to alter a not guilty verdict and declare a defendant guilty. The juries determine fact while the judge provides the law. There is the little used notion of jury nullification, which allows a jury to acquit a defendant if they reject the law. This would permit the jury into the realm of the judiciary, and is the ultimate in the ideal of a jury as a check on the power of the state.
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Re: Crime & Justice
[Re: olivant]
#752634
12/10/13 02:00 PM
12/10/13 02:00 PM
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Joined: Apr 2006
Posts: 11,797 Pennsylvania
klydon1
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Joined: Apr 2006
Posts: 11,797
Pennsylvania
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Jeopardy didn't apply there as the bribery never placed him in jeopardy. Thanks Kly. But I was wondering if, for example, you think the same ruling might apply if the a jury or prosecutor was bribed. Jeopardy would not attach if a defendant bribed a juror, such that it is determined that a verdict of guilt could not be reached. A judge trial is, of course, an easier call. If a prosecutor is bribed by a defendant, it would be very difficult to argue that jeopardy attached at the trial as the fact finding process was corrupted ab initio. There would be review to determine if the prosecutor still reasonably prosecuted the case, and if so, a defendant (although his hands are dirty from the bribe) might assert that a subsequent prosecution may be barred, or perhaps modified on the grounds of collateral estoppel. If certain facts were established legitimately (without a taint from the bribe), then those issues may be precluded from consideration at a subsequent trial. Of course, the defendant in any case must stand trial for the felony bribe. I didn't address your other question about the ruling of the 7th Circuit. It is true as you stated earlier that decisions from US Courts of Appeal are limited to that specific circuit as well as the district courts it encompasses. Circuit court opinions are considered as non-binding outside the jurisdiction, but they are often considered as guiding nonetheless. Here the 7th Circuit's opinion, I believe, is consistent with most of the views held by the federal judiciary.
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Re: Crime & Justice
[Re: klydon1]
#753027
12/12/13 12:28 PM
12/12/13 12:28 PM
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Joined: Oct 2001
Posts: 19,694 AZ
Turnbull
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Joined: Oct 2001
Posts: 19,694
AZ
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The Dumb Criminal parade continues out here: Yesterday, local cops stopped a guy for going 83 in a 65 mph zone. Opened the trunk and found an illegal alien inside. Driver was illegal, too. Charged with human trafficking. Today, paper reported that two guys were stopped for going more than 20 mph under the speed limit on an Interstate. Staties found 7 lbs of meth, 66 lbs of pot. Subsidiary charge for both: DWH (Driving While Hispanic). 
Ntra la porta tua lu sangu � sparsu, E nun me mporta si ce muoru accisu... E s'iddu muoru e vaju mparadisu Si nun ce truovo a ttia, mancu ce trasu.
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Re: Crime & Justice
[Re: Lilo]
#753846
12/17/13 08:52 AM
12/17/13 08:52 AM
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Joined: Jan 2008
Posts: 5,325 MI
Lilo
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Joined: Jan 2008
Posts: 5,325
MI
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Indeed so. http://www.nytimes.com/2013/12/18/us/pol...victory.html?hpMr. Klayman’s relentless legal career has won him many critics. Brad Blakeman, a professor at Georgetown University and a former official in Mr. Bush’s administration, said their paths crossed when Mr. Klayman filed a lawsuit claiming trademark violations involving Mr. Blakeman’s conservative group, Freedom’s Watch. Mr. Klayman lost that particular battle.
“Larry Klayman fights for himself and his own delusions of grandeur,” Mr. Blakeman said on Monday. “He’s probably one of the more despicable people I’ve ever encountered. If you look up gadfly in the dictionary, I believe you’ll see a picture of Larry Layman. He’s a professional antagonist. He’s a bully.”
Stressing that his opinions of Mr. Klayman were only opinions, Mr. Blakeman waved aside the ruling on the N.S.A. and other examples of Mr. Klayman’s success.
“A clock is right twice a day,” Mr. Blakeman said. “It’s the 22 other hours.”
"When the snows fall and the white winds blow, the lone wolf dies but the pack survives." Winter is Coming
Now this is the Law of the Jungle—as old and as true as the sky; And the wolf that shall keep it may prosper, but the wolf that shall break it must die. As the creeper that girdles the tree-trunk, the Law runneth forward and back; For the strength of the Pack is the Wolf, and the strength of the Wolf is the Pack.
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Re: Crime & Justice
[Re: Lilo]
#754278
12/19/13 12:31 PM
12/19/13 12:31 PM
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Joined: Aug 2013
Posts: 1,100 Cajunland
LaLouisiane
Cajun Mafia
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Cajun Mafia
Underboss
Joined: Aug 2013
Posts: 1,100
Cajunland
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I wouldn't even waste the taxpayers money on this. Take that out to the pasture and put them down. After they are put down, quote Goodfellas After they shoot Tommy D. and the old guy says "And That's That." and be done with it. There should be no rights for people like this.
"What are you cacklin' hens cluckin' about?!?!"
"Is that him?!? With the sombrero on?!?"
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Re: Crime & Justice
[Re: klydon1]
#755959
12/28/13 12:39 PM
12/28/13 12:39 PM
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Joined: Dec 2006
Posts: 23,296 Throggs Neck
pizzaboy
The Fuckin Doctor
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The Fuckin Doctor

Joined: Dec 2006
Posts: 23,296
Throggs Neck
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By Evan Perez, CNN updated 12:09 PM EST, Fri December 27, 2013
(CNN) -- The National Security Agency notched a much-needed win in court, after a series of setbacks over the legality and even the usefulness of its massive data collection program.
A federal judge in New York ruled Friday that the National Security Agency's bulk collection of data on nearly every phone call made in the United States is legal.
The ruling contrasts with another ruling last week by a federal judge in Washington, who called the same program "almost Orwellian" and likely unconstitutional.
In his ruling Friday, U.S. District Judge William Pauley said that while the NSA's program under Section 215 of the Patriot Act has become the center of controversy since it was revealed by leaks by former NSA contractor Edward Snowden, it is legal. "But the question of whether that program should be conducted is for the other two coordinate branches of government to decide." This decision is more in line with constitutional precedent than the previous decision. Please explain why, Counselor  .
"I got news for you. If it wasn't for the toilet, there would be no books." --- George Costanza.
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Re: Crime & Justice
[Re: pizzaboy]
#756240
12/30/13 11:36 AM
12/30/13 11:36 AM
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Joined: Apr 2006
Posts: 11,797 Pennsylvania
klydon1
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Joined: Apr 2006
Posts: 11,797
Pennsylvania
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By Evan Perez, CNN updated 12:09 PM EST, Fri December 27, 2013
(CNN) -- The National Security Agency notched a much-needed win in court, after a series of setbacks over the legality and even the usefulness of its massive data collection program.
A federal judge in New York ruled Friday that the National Security Agency's bulk collection of data on nearly every phone call made in the United States is legal.
The ruling contrasts with another ruling last week by a federal judge in Washington, who called the same program "almost Orwellian" and likely unconstitutional.
In his ruling Friday, U.S. District Judge William Pauley said that while the NSA's program under Section 215 of the Patriot Act has become the center of controversy since it was revealed by leaks by former NSA contractor Edward Snowden, it is legal. "But the question of whether that program should be conducted is for the other two coordinate branches of government to decide." This decision is more in line with constitutional precedent than the previous decision. Please explain why, Counselor  . The NSA's collection of information concerning when phone calls are made and the numbers between the parties of such calls does not interfere with the Fourth Amendment as the expectation of privacy is diminished when a third party (AT&T, Verizon, etc.) is purposely used as a necessary medium by which to conduct the communication. The content of the communication deserves some protection, but the fact that you made the call has not generally fallen under the umbrella of privacy protection in light of federal decisions interpreting the right. The process of collecting data also involves approval of magistrates, albeit a judge , created by statute which seems to be rubberstamping warrants. The federal decision observes the constitutionality of the procedure, defined within the Patriot Act, and correctly observes that while legal, the executive and legislative branches must stay vigilant and critical to determine whether the practice is or remains good policy.
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Re: Crime & Justice
[Re: olivant]
#758144
01/11/14 12:00 PM
01/11/14 12:00 PM
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Joined: Apr 2006
Posts: 11,797 Pennsylvania
klydon1
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Joined: Apr 2006
Posts: 11,797
Pennsylvania
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A federal judge has ruled that Yelp can be forced to reveal its posters identities. If it's sustained on appeal, that ruling could turn out to be quite a harbinger of things to come.
Kly, what do you think? It's an interesting issue: Whether freedom of speech is violated by forcing to reveal identities of people, who wish to remain anonymous conserning commercial reviews posted on an internet site. Of concern is the chilling effect this decision has on speech as it undeniably discourages comments from those, who prefer to maintain anonymity, which the First Amendment recognizes as valid. However, where it is alleged that such comments constitute libel, which allegedly resulted in pecuniary loss, the umbrella of free speech protection is weakened. It is further weakened by the fact that the plaintiff is not a public figure or official and that the speech is commercial, and not political. I imagine that as this issue arises in other jurisdictions, the competing interests may be weighed differently and that rulings, like Virginia's, which force the release of identities, will be narrowly tailored to achieve the individual result. A body of precedent will develop before any broad pronouncement might be rendered. In the Virginia case the release of the names is particularly vital as the libel action specifically claims that the libelous business reviews were fictitious. I'm not sure what evidence or allegation was submitted to support the claim, but there is a compelling argument that the plaintiff is unduly prejudiced if the names are released.
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Re: Crime & Justice
[Re: olivant]
#758776
01/15/14 12:43 PM
01/15/14 12:43 PM
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Joined: Apr 2006
Posts: 11,797 Pennsylvania
klydon1
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Joined: Apr 2006
Posts: 11,797
Pennsylvania
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A riddle about crime:
Sally is a blonde-haired, competent adult, a 22 year old college student, who was charged with the murder of her ex-boyfriend, Dave. Sally lives with her parents and her sister, Joan, a shy brunette, and her brother, Mike, a slow-witted, red-haired ten year old.
Police learned and trial testimony established that Sally had telephoned Dave and invited him to her house, at which he arrived 30 minutes after the call. Mike testified that he was present in the house when Dave arrived, spoke with him briefly and then left by himself five minutes later. He said Sally was speaking with Dave on the sofa of the living room when he left, and when he returned ten minutes later, Dave was dead, lying on the livingroom floor with two apparent gunshot wounds to the chest.
Joan testified that she was present when Sally pulled out a revolver, which she carried for apparent safety reasons because her school was in a shady part of town, and shot Dave twice. Joan was prevented by Sally from calling the police, so she screamed for help until police came.
Sally confessed to the killing and stated that she had planned to kill Dave for a while. Joan testified to what she had witnessed, claiming she was unaware of Sally's plan even though she felt very close to her. She described how Dave had begged for his life before being shot, and how he suffered for a few minutes before Sally shot him a second time. Fingerprints on the trigger and gun powder residue on the hand confirmed Sally as the shooter.
Sally was convicted of first degree murder, which carries at a minimum,a life sentence in the state where the murder took place. Because of the circumstances the prosecutor was seeking the death penalty, and the judge asked the parties if they were ready to proceed with the penalty phase.
Sally's attorney said to the prosecutor and judge, "Do what you want, but we all know whatever the jury decides, Sally will never have to worry about a death penalty. In fact, she's never going to spend a day in jail for this and she'll walk right out of this courtroom after this trial and go home."
The judge and prosecutor looked at each other, understood, and noticed that both Sally and Joan were smiling.
Why can Sally never be imprisoned or executed for killing Dave?
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Re: Crime & Justice
[Re: klydon1]
#758783
01/15/14 01:22 PM
01/15/14 01:22 PM
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Joined: Apr 2002
Posts: 25,984 California
The Italian Stallionette
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Joined: Apr 2002
Posts: 25,984
California
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Let me guess. She was "standing her ground?" I have to study story more cause I don't know. TIS
"Mankind must put an end to war before war puts an end to mankind. War will exist until that distant day when the conscientious objector enjoys the same reputation and prestige that the warrior does today." JFK
"War is over, if you want it" - John Lennon
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