What’s up fellas? So I was talking to the aunt of my fiend. She is an attorney in Boston who has represented such OC figures as Peter Limone, Carmen Dinunzio, JR Russo (back in the day), and Vinny Ferrara. I was talking to her about the current state of the Patriarca’s and this is what she said.

She said that Limone never was the boss. She thinks that because of the massive respect he has, and the fact that all the old guys make a point to say hello to him, that the Feds assumed he was boss. She said although he got indicted for gambling he really is hands off now. She went on to say that after Baby Shacks stepped down in Providence that the Cheeseman is the boss of what is left. I asked her how the old guys like Vinny Ferrara and Spucky Spagnolo fit in. She said that before Baby Shacks went away they sent some money his way from the gambling and shylocking they have going on, but that stopped after he stepped down. She said that the old timers are basically doing their own thing while the younger guys work for Cheese.

She said that there are a few guys that could put things back together if they wanted to such as Matty Gugs, Vinny, Spucky, or Pryce, but at this point, none of them want to be in the drivers seat.

This is just speculation on my part and I hope to hear from some of the knowledgeable New England Guys. If I am completely off base, then let me know.

Wow whoever your lawyer friend is, she knows what shes talking about cause this is pretty much hitting the nail on the head.

This is what I have:


Patriarca Crime Family
Boss: Peter "Chief Crazy Horse" Limone
Acting Boss: Anthony L. DiNunzio
Underboss: Carmen S. "the Cheese Man" DiNunzio
Consigliere: Unknown

pretty accurate except hat limone is the head head man.... the old school guys have their own tight crew....some of the younger guys get acknowledged but rely on their superior for directions oppose overall family like communication...and I think I have a idea who that lawyer lady may be but joe russo did go pro se and vinny was represented by either richard egbert or marty weignberg i forget which one ....old man pete was represented by balliro's daughter juliana in the last case and by richard egbert in his original case and cheese lawyer is cardinale so something is not adding up at all or she is full of shit... the only lady oc lawyers i know are julliana and rosemary shapiro thats it the rest of oc lawyers are cuhna of r.i. cardinale, marty, bobby sheketoff and sometimes leppo and joe balliro...and the fact that she didnt mention biago who is really the power man with legitimacy and alot of other things concerns me with her knowledge

Thanks for the Boston info as usual, Joe. Props to the O.P. as well.

This is information that Joe Russo has posted numerous times except the part about Limone. And Joe alot of those lawyers have others on their teams that help with cases, so it could be he got this information from a woman aide. Otherwise he doesnt wanna say where he heard that. Both me and Russo have talked about this subject and alot of forum members downplay some of our knowledge when I can confirm most of what he posts. Hey Russo maybe Biago wasnt mentioned cause his name isnt supposed to be spoken of, think Vincent Gigante when it comes to that issue.

I think it'll be interesting when Matty Guglielmetti gets out along with the Cheese and his brother Anthony, they all get about the same time 2015/2016.

They will all be in the prime earnings years...

Hey guys. I was vague about my friend’s aunt on purpose but because of one of the comments I received I feel I have to expand. My friend’s aunt is a lawyer but she was not the lead attorney for any of the aforementioned guys. She is an expert on RICO cases and she is often called in as a consultant. Anyone who knows anything about organized crime trials, in particular RICO cases is that there is not just one lawyer working on your case. You have one and sometimes two lead attorneys who call in expert witnesses and consultants who are often lawyers themselves. She has worked on OC cases from Providence to NYC so as far as I am concerned her credentials are not in question. If anyone really doubts me I can PM you with proof of who she is, I just am not going to out her on a public forum.

I honestly believe her that there is no true united Patriarca Family. The old guys are too smart to get involved with Cheese and his BS. The feds are just lying in wait with Rossetti and Deluca ready to make a case against the Dinunzio Family, Billy Angelesco, Mike Prochilo, Darrin Bufalino, and basically anyone who get nostalgic and thinks it’s the 1980s still. I mean if you were Matty, Vinny, or one of the other old heads, would you bet you future that Cheese will not get indicted again when he gets out. I will not say there is no way they could recover, I just do not think it would make sense to operate like they used to.

Its funny, the North End is a world in its own. If you hang around there it is easy to see why people think the Patriarca’s are alive and well as they have ever been. I am not trying to talk ill of the North End, I have respect for those guys. I just do not think they are dumb enough to get caught doing their old tricks. Cheese will continue to be a fat idiot along with his junkie crews. As for Limone, I honestly do not know his rank so I will, leave that one alone.

Great stuff. I'm curious about what they do with Rossetti. Sounds like he knows about a lot of the bodies that dropped in the 80's/90's,either he did or he knows who did. Surprised they haven't trotted that info out there yet. Then again, he's probably not the most believable witness (see the Philly trial for what juries can think about criminal informants on the stand) I think the war was before the Cheeseman was involved.

Well stated Gingello...I'm sure somebody will attack you in some way, shape or form. Angelesco has an affinity for the needle, it's a matter of time before he ends up dead or cooperating over a dime bag worth of heroin. The old guys like Patriarca and company would have put him out of his misery a while ago...gotta love the new generation of mobsters today.

I don't see the well respected old timers taking orders from a putz like DiNunzio. Somebody should just whack those two fat fucks and get it over with already.

Hey guys I wanted to point out one thing. I agree about Biagio being a man of respect, but to be honest I did not want to mention his name. I think the Chin Gigante reference applies well here. I have to agree with JCB. If it were the 1980s-early 1990s I think the North End would have iced them both.

One more note I know the killings Rossetti was involved in were before Cheese was really active in the administration, but that does not mean some of those could not be included in a RICO Indictment. Not to mention the DeVito and Squillante murders, from what I have heard, have guys waiting for the Feds to drop an indictment for them. The Feds won the Vernace trial in NYC and that murder was 30 years old, and he was acquitted in the state trial just like Angelesco was. Sure people's memories are less hazy on the DeVito and Squillante hits. I am sure by the time Cheese gets out Angelesco and those other morons will have pissed off a few more people into turning rat. Plus its not like its a secret that he did the work on those two hits.

It would take Angelesco no longer than 36 hours before his addiction kicked in and they'll press him until he breaks...and it's a shame because he is a very capable guy. They're digging up old murders from 30+ years ago all over the country, it's a free pass to a new life in the sunshine for these guys who are 55-60 years old, not a bad retirement package without the bullshit scams on the street, the lying, deceiving, chasing the next nickel by selling H on a street corner...for some guys it's a way out of a life that has two outcomes...stay tuned until then. Peter Limine should take his millions, take care of a few of his closest guys and run like Gump...hope he hasn't been in on any hits since his release. I hope I'm wrong, but I've been told and other posters on this forum have said that Angelesco is the Christopher Moltisanti of the Boston underworld (not in those words, but it's been stated by a few that they have heard the same thing, or know this to be true.

All I am going to say is me personally dont think Billy would rat I mean he had plenty of chances and it wasnt like he was facing a dime he was facing the elbow(life). And yea the north end is a world of its own so is federal hill. with that being said just knw there is alot going on and the fat cheese can be influential but he is NOT from a long shot the most respected or feared guy. I peronally thinks by rank he can be underboss but in reality he gets overseen all the time by the real figure heads and thats a fact

If I recall correctly, Angelesco was in jail when Squillante was hit but his right hand man wasn't. Squillante was a witness to the Santasky murder.

Billy wouldnt rat, he has had to kick the dope cold turkey in prison and he stood up and did his time. Hes had to kick dope many times so he knows how that ballgame goes. And if you guys are wondering, Billy is sober as of now, so maybe he will stay that way, but only he can be the one who controls that issue. Hes very capable, if it wasnt for the drugs, who knows where his place would be. Theres alot of guys Billys age and younger that are still working the life hard. A couple of the old timers love Billy cause hes old school in the way he goes about business, it may be risky, but hes blue collar and toughness and balls were the old way for alot of gangsters. Its up in the air in my eyes on whats gonna happen when Cheese gets out, could be,problems, could be smooth. Just gotta wait and see what happens

There was rumor not to long ago that Biagio D was still the man conducting the ceremonies when they needed to be done and while mostly retired was still consulted on issue that may arise with the NY families.

Any truth...?

I've heard the same things about Billy...BUT...addiction is a crazy, powerful disease and to continually kick dope cold turkey is IMO a liability. Glad to hear he is sober, as being sober will certainly provide a clear head for important decisions. I'm from the old school though, and a lot of old timers had a simple rule: Get hooked on dope, you die. It certainly will be very interesting to see what happens over the next 5 years. Especially if DeLuca and Rossetti give up any murders from years past. From what I have been told, DeLuca has provided "a lot more information" than what people believe that he provided which was a chicken shit strip club extortion scheme. They didn't give him a free pass and relocate him for charges that amounted to bullshit...the Feds are doing their due diligence and I'm sure they are going to press Rossetti hard. I also don't see some of the stand up guys in Boston/Providence taking orders from the two fat brothers...stay tuned.

Here are some old FBI files from the 1960's regarding the major players in New England:


http://www.maryferrell.org/mffweb/archive/viewer/showDoc.do?docId=128000&relPageId=5

http://www.maryferrell.org/mffweb/archive/viewer/showDoc.do?docId=94918&relPageId=2

http://www.maryferrell.org/mffweb/archive/viewer/showDoc.do?docId=141679&relPageId=4

http://www.maryferrell.org/mffweb/archive/viewer/showDoc.do?docId=94921&relPageId=2

http://www.maryferrell.org/mffweb/archive/viewer/showDoc.do?docId=95164&relPageId=2

http://www.maryferrell.org/mffweb/archive/viewer/showDoc.do?docId=95269&relPageId=2 (conversation between Ray Sr. and Nick Bianco)

http://www.maryferrell.org/mffweb/archive/viewer/showDoc.do?docId=112979&relPageId=1 (233 page report on OC on all families)

This is a great find it shows the inner workings of a bygone era. I am totally impressed by the respect shown for the members and bosses. There isn't any name calling or backstabbing. I was impressed with Patriarca making Angiulo apologise for calling another member a name. These days are long gone.

Once Anthony DiNunzio was indicted, he was no longer in a position to be acting boss. And it came out some time ago that Carmen DiNunzio's position had changed from underboss to consigliere.

Hey Joe thanks for your input. I see I was off base on some things and right on others. I agree Cheese is not even close to being the most respected guy in the North End. Personally, I agree that Angelesco would not rat but I do think him and Cheese will get ratted on and end up back inside. I know Cheese is inside now so I meant he will get sent back once he gets out. Also I did not mean to imply Billy pulled the trigger in the Squillante hit but he definitely knows all the details, and he can still be indicted for conspiracy. I respect your information and I meant no disrespect.

JCB I agree 100% that the Feds are not through using Rossetti and Deluca. They got both those guys right where they want them and they are going to keep squeezing them. They know a whole lot that could hurt everyone from Boston to Providence.

I just hope we can keep this New England thread from degenerating into a pissing contest between the Italians and the Irish lol.

Hey Ivy do you recall who first mentioned that Peter Limone was the boss? I do not think the Feds ever officially said he was. Was it the Mass State Police? My point is that the only people who claimed he was Boss was the news people in Providence.

jcb the files are pretty interesting. its says rite there patriarca had nicky bianco made in sept 10 1963 probably ats patys rest. in nyc. ive read only 1 or 2 other guys made in the 1960tys. Gambino made nino gaggi probably cause he was big pauls right hand man that came from I think his nephew dominck book murder machine and Christy tick from those files to. but for patriarca to get bianco made and the just place him in the hierarchy of the profaci family says something. I really don't get if he was on the commission or reported to them kinda like samm the plumber. if he was told too stay away from bonanno and the whole family he was to power hungry. roseeti done the fbi fed him to the wolves and burriud him in the mass doc. he a usless witness and black eye. DeLuca rode off to the sunset it was reported baby shacky wanted limone to take over once he came home. antohny d was caught on the nicky skins tape saying he was acting boss so that only means limone is boss maybe in name only but hes boss till he says so. wanna say I read roseeti was acting consig for anythony rite up till the herion bust. the capo from providence was caught by DeLuca saying how stupid it was for anthoyn to be splitting the club money. they made a few guys in the last few yrs. bufalino in 2008 so probably other guys. Anthony son whose like 25 probably in the last 2 or 3 yrs. there not lacking for recruits its just weird you never heard baby shacks making r.i. guy and the state is half Italian. st laurents kid never got it he was around forever. chippy plead guilty in the plea it said he was made in 1996 so baby shacks probably made his guys when he took over. bet that old guy makes it home he was in good shape, his nephew is a convicted killer and union official for luina, don't think hes made either.

jcb did you read the part about the 2 brothers last napilantano or how ever its spelled they ran the gambling up in maine and were made guys for patriarca. kinda cool is there anything else on them. I remember you were searching about mmaine. they must have had dealings with controni/rizzuto crew. also cool how crlo m was a Genovese guy but kinda reported to ray. there was a lot of made guys in Worcester back then I think theres only like 2 today. back the there was Genovese and patriarca guys.

Yes, it was the Massachusetts State Police. At least that's what the I-Team reported. But it wasn't clear if they meant Limone had really succeeded Manocchio as the official boss or was just acting boss at the time. Often the media just uses the term "boss" generically and doesn't differentiate.

While it's possible Limone was in either position for a time, he wasn't indicted as such in his gambling case. And even if he was, Anthony DiNunzio later becoming acting boss shows Limone wasn't running things directly by that point. In fact, Rhode Island state police superintendent Col. Steven O'Donnell said DiNunzio had taken over the family from Limone.

Thanks Ivy. I asked this because as I mentioned earlier in the thread that my friend's aunt who is an attorney that has worked on many OC cases, said that from what she had heard, Limone was never the boss.

I still think she may have been right.

So both the Rhode Island & Massachusetts State Police said/thought Limone was boss but, your aunt thinks that he never was. That's interesting because if she was representing some of those guys one would think she might be privy to some info.

Is Vinny the animal Ferrara on parole or probation for the rest of his life? For some reason I keep thinking that but don't remember where I read that

No Vinnys not on parole or probation. He's free as a bird. I tend to agree with you Gingello about Limone, but he had something to do with descision making cause even back during the Devito murder him and Cheese were seen alot together. And Micheal Barry, Anthony's brother approached Limone about taking Anthony's side over a beef between him and Billy. The Barry's wanted Limone to support them cause the murder wasn't sanctioned. And they were trying to pin Muckas murder on Billy. Limone told them to go fuck themselves and he was supporting Billy. The old time Boston guys are the truth. Kinda funny how they were never even mentioned in the strip club case and that got Louie and sloppy Anthony and other big names, but not one Boston old timer got in trouble or even mentioned. Your friends aunt said they were sending money to Baby Shacks and it stopped when Shacks stepped down. So right there tells ya their strength. They are too smart to get caught up in what the Cheese or the rest of the fellas do. They are more powerful than any one man in Providence as of now and,like Russo said there is more than meets the eye when it comes to the North End and these guys.