Thing is though, your opinion is meaningless. Why don't you contribute something worthwhile to the forum instead of running your mouth. Shit I'm sure if you were in that life you would be wearing a wire all day. Come with some facts like this one for instance, Italian OC in Chicago is washed up.....like your arguments.

The outfit has had it's fair share of rats too

I bet from a percentage standpoint it's about the same , it looks like their were 2 rats with just that last case .

NY certainly has it's rats but lately it seems things have calmed down , as murders drop people aren't looking at the life sentences . When you think how NY has 700 made men IMO today's leaders have done a pretty good job of keeping things quiet , steering away from violence and making some good money . Gambling and shy are as big as ever and the high end weed biz has replaced some loss income in garbage , fish , unions , they are making some really good margins in that wholesale biz .

I do feel law enforcement has done a pretty good job with the NYC mob , however I think the smart ones have shifted some focus to NJ where law enforcement isn't as concerned or centralized with so many different cities . Some of these guys have some huge books and I wouldn't be surprised if that $2B on bets placed with the Luchesse bust was true, everyone gambles here and at least 5 of my good friends are agents and even 1 the bank. Not to mention garbage still has a LCN problem ( just my town has a huge transport Co to Ohio that must be raking it in , and it's backed by P/E $) . Plus the port is still a $ maker , particularly with pay offs for contracts and skimming union funds , whereas LE has really cleaned up the BK port. I think what we are seeing is a suburban LCN where they have upper hand on LE.

As long as they stick to their book , shy , weed and legit biz , less murders and expanding out of NYC, they could continue to prosper from a $ standpoint , less power and control but more $

@DB

the outfit has only one made member rat in court

NY has had several bosses, underbosses, acting bosses, and consiglieres rat in court

not too mention the captains that have ratted

You also have to take into consideration that Chicago has always made less guys and NYC has five families, all with more guys now than Chicago had at even their highest numbers in the fifties and sixties.

Mainly because there has been nothing to rat about in a long time, there finished.

I've mentioned how one law enforcement official talked about how, even with all the publicity surrounding the NY members that flip, there's far more that don't. He said it "wasn't even close." The NY families have proven their persistence in the face of rats in their ranks, law enforcement, other crime groups, etc. What they have that no other family really does is the recruiting pool to stave off attrition. Chicago only having one made guy flip won't save it from fading away.

This argument doesn't work because even smaller families than NYC such as philly, new england, jersey, ect has had way more rats than Chicago and they're smaller.

Of course there are rats in Chicago but there's no denying that the numbers are far less compared to other cities.

Well cook many of the outfit posters say associates are similar to soldiers in NY so using that assumption there have been many rats in chicago too

this might be far fetch, I don't know, but when you look at the list of made men who flipped, most were in the 90's, Cant I say that? yes we had nicky skins a few years ago and we will see made men turn in the future but now everyone goes for pleas so you don't see as many made men turning because there is no need

LOL! That's a good point. But that's when they'll backtrack and claim the associates who flipped don't count in this case.

@ivyleague


when discussing made members of the mafia flipping why would associates be included?

somebody sounds like a fan of thin crusted pizza

Just shut the fuck up already cook!!!

*in my best Peter Griffin voice: oh my god who the hell cares

Best comment ever! I barely have a face because i have palmed it so much in relation to just about anything cook has ever said.

^^^^ i know the feeling!

The sad thing is i used to be a big believer in racial equality, but cookcounty has single handedly turned me into a racist and a bigot.

He has inspired me to take a trip down to florida with my glock .45 and stand my ground against a trayvon martin look a like.....who am i kidding they all look the same to me!

^Yupp you know how it is these days. You could be the most enlightened person in the world. But if you say one wrong thing you're a racist. "You tryna keep us down white boy"

I'm going to try and explain this to you one time, cook, and one time only.

When the size of the Outfit is the point of conversation, certain Chicago posters try to inflate the totals by arguing that many associates have membership status in the Chicago mob.

But if that's the case, one could argue that many of the Outfit associates who have flipped should be counted among the Chicago rats. But that's when those Chicago posters will do a 180 and argue they aren't made so they shouldn't be counted.

That's the joke.

Oh, I get it. New York pizza is thin crusted. As opposed to Chicago pizza, which is thick crusted.

Good Lord, Cook. Ivy isn't a fan of ANY mob guys. If anything, he's a bit of a moralist (and I mean that respectfully, Ivy ). But because he's objective and posts verifiable facts, he's a fanboy of New York? Okay, got it .

Don't you ever get tired of being so fucking stupid? I mean, even if I was as dumb as you are, I'd probably keep it to myself. You know, better to be quiet and thought the fool and all of that . . .

@ivyleague



why would associates count when we're counting made members of the mafia?

ny has had more bosses flip than chicago has had associates flip

that's just a fucking fact

@CC:

There's 750+ Wiseguys in NYC. 30 odd in Chicago.

Doing a simple count off of rats is hardly indicative now is it?


Perspective.

I agree about a guy only being a member if they are made. Just make sure you and your fellow Chicago posters remember that fact next time the subject of 25-30 Outfit members is being discussed. No trying to inflate the totals by arguing associates are "different" in Chicago.

New York has had more bosses flip than Chicago has had associates flip? That's certainly not true.

You keep dwelling on the rats in New York because you're still butt-hurt about your fantasy Chicago Outfit not being a reality. Yes, there are more rats in New York but that's partly because those families are so much larger than the Outfit or any other outside New York. And even then, like I said, the number of guys that flip is very small compared to the ones that don't.

The Outfit has proven to be one of the more secretive and disciplined families, even in recent years, but that won't save it from attrition. Because of recruiting pool alone, the most rat-infested of NY families will be around long after the Outfit is gone.

That's a fact.

^^^^^

why would associates flipping count against actual mafia members flipping?

They don't. Somebody is only made if they are made.

But if certain Chicago posters are going to argue that the Outfit has more than 28 members, because some associates basically have made status there, wouldn't that also mean some associates who flipped could be considered as made?

See what I mean? Chicago posters want it one way but not the other. They talk out of both sides of their mouth depending on whether they want to inflate the Outfit's membership or minimize the number of it's defectors.

chicago posters don't have a goddamn thing to do with mobsters flipping

chicago posters don't got a goddamn thing to do with bosses flipping in ny

chicago posters ain't got a goddamn thing to do with associates ratting in chicago

Ivy i dont know why you even bother engaging this mongoloid.

Exactly. He's a fucking retard, plain and simple. Borderline illiterate, unemployed and brain dead. He'll never amount to anything but a drain on both society and the economy.

Don't ... feed ... the ... fucking ... trolls.