Doesn't matter if Carlo wanted it that way, if Castellano wasn't respected a war would have broke out as soon as Carlo died. You think Neil would take orders from a pussy? Apparently Neil plotted to kill Carlo when he took over as boss, what makes you think he'd hesitate with Castellano?

Gotti got voted in because he had a lot of hitters on his side, people didn't want to be the next Castellano.

Yes, topic is getting old and with hundreds of opinions. Mine is that Gotti, by his ego was the biggest reason for the demise of the NYC mob. He just had to rub it in the FBI's face- no wonder they went after him. He ruined it fore a lot of other guys. By the way, I don't think a penis implant of the kind Castillano got
enlarges the penis, just enables him to get an erection (????)

I would find it hard to be 'pro Gotti' - he did a better job than the Feds at bringing the family down, along with his ever-present sidekick Sammy the Bull, possibly the biggest mob snitch of all time. Gotti fell apart quickly, taking everyone with him.

John gotti was a legend , yes he made mistakes by making his captains meet at the ravenite once a week and he was brash and in your face , but he was exactly what the mob needed at that time after the drab mob bosses of the past , I loved his fuck you attitude . The Feds know who we are why should I hide under a stone . Ok he got caught on a bug and courted the limelight . He won't be the first or the last . People forget that the reason he. Was in the limelight was because at the time castellano was killed he was on trial for the romuel pichek thing , people wanted to get a look at the new godfather . The media sought hi out and turned him into a public icon , and as for the drugs thing , that was wen Angelo ruggiero's brother Salvatore died in a plane crash , he was a drug dealer and Angelo and the crew got into it cleaning up Salvatore's affairs . Every boss as profited from drug money directly or indirectly FACT , it's a case of don't get caught . John gotti was a mans man and stood by the oath he took , a lot can be said for that these days

One criticism I've heard about Castellano was that he was too easy on satellite OC that dropped his name, I'm thinking specifically of the Westies. Anyone care to weigh in on it? is it a fair assessment?

dom does have a point about Gotti - the media sought him out, made him an icon. That said, he certainly didn't do anything to discourage it, which he most certainly could have. In the end, Gotti was a stand up guy. Certainly, he was not a good boss by any measure, but Gotti was a true gangster until the end. For whatever that is worth.

I was referring to the sentiment about Castellano BEFORE he allowed Piccolo to be hit. Prior to Piccolo getting whacked, guys like Armone, Gravano and the DeCiccos probably wouldn't have been in favor of hitting him. Piccolo getting hit was just the mistake that Gotti needed to exploit to gain favor with those guys.


Yes, but again, I wasn't commenting on that silly debate about who was a better mob boss. It's old and tired and we've discussed it here a million fucking times. I was merely pointing out that the Piccolo hit took guys like Gravano and Armone and DiBernardo and the DeCicco brothers off the fence about Paul. And without their support, Gotti never could have pulled it off. Or maybe he does pull it off and gets hit himself a week later. By guys like Gravano and Armone and DiBernardo and the DeCicco brothers.


Nonsense. There are STILL Westside guys you've never heard of.


Bull-SHIT. Just because you never heard of John Gotti before 1985 in the friendly confines of the British countryside, doesn't mean he was low key by any stretch of the imagination. He was well known to the Feds even before he got his button, which is really saying something. And he was already making plenty of trips to the Bronx and the other outer boroughs to place bets with bookmakers long before becoming boss. By the summer of '84 he owed phone numbers to Bronx bookmakers in Morris Park. In short, too many people knew who he was even prior to his beef with that Polack Piecyk.

I wasn't saying he wasn't known to the Feds pre 85 , wot I was saying was the castellano hit catapulted him into the public eye

I know he was being watched in the late 70s and early 80s , I think the main guy who followed him was john gurnee . He certainly was one of the first .

Then why didn't he make a move against carlo? God knows he had the power to do so. Paul wasn't respected by the blue collar guys and the white collar guys respected him because of the money they made with him. At least that's what i think. My point is none of them where good bosses and in the long run castellano would've embarassed the family to that point that someone else probably would've taken him out. At the end of the day paul wasn't even half the man john was

The feds themselves said that they stumbled on gotti by a coincidence in the late 70s i think. They had a rat (willie boy) that happend to be a part of the bergen crew

thats not how they "stumbled" across him

How was it then?

The feds had their eyes on Gotti already in the 1960s. Read his FBI files in the Vault.

I totally agree with PB what he says in his post above. But the question in this thread is who the better boss was, Castellano or Gotti. In my opinion, Gotti was a disaster for the Gambinos. He lasted for five years only before being sent to prison for life. That´s an extremely short tenure as boss on the street. And he only had himself to blame.

That i know, what im saying is that they started to hear his name in connection to organized crime, the mob or whatever you call it when willie boy started to inform on them

They had their eye on gotti before Willie Boy. Joe Coffey of teh FBI said they had their eye on him when he was hijacking trucks in the late 60's and he ended up going to jail for it. Also there are plenty of surveillence videos in 1979 of Gotti. The FBI didnt become really strong until the 80's especially after the Giuliani did the RICO charges

Willie boy started informing on them in the late 60s so when joe coffey says they had an eye on john in the 60s its probably because willie boy gave them the information on him

Pizzaboy, I agree with your post but British countryside? Domwoods is from manchester, clearly you've never been there lol

stop it, yore wrong...move on

I'd argue if I could, Tommy. But when you're right, you're right .

But it kinda proves my point: We can all be ignorant about each other's cultures now and then .

Re Manchester: Only thing I know about Manchester is that's where Daphne Moon (the "Frasier" character) was supposedly from. And Jane Leeves is still hot as hell, so they're all right with me .

I don't see where I'm from has anything to do with my knowledge on the mafia ,??? Elaborate . Tommy just because u have walked down mulberry st a couple of times doesn't make u an authority on the mob . It certainly doesn't make u an authority on me so have some fuckin respect

Are you talking to me, Dom?

No I'm talking to tommy , there is no need to patronise me , I come on this board because I'm interested in the mob . I've been fascinated in the subject for 25 years and I think I know a little bit about the subject , I love learning from others aswel , wot I don't come on here for is to be ridiculed by keyboard warriors who hide behind fake profiles

You're both good guys who contribute a lot and I've never seen either of you make trouble here. And lately, that's really saying something. So let's just take a breath and get the topic back on track.

And to tell you the truth, I feel like I instigated the whole thing with my Manchester countryside remark. I was kidding, of course, so that wasn't my intention. But if it provoked an argument, put it on me and let it go .

Yeah it is your fault pizzaboy u cocksucker ha ha just joking . Have u never heard of the band oasis ?? There from Manchester

I sent you a pm, Dom.

No problem bro

What the hell are you on about? PB said something about you living in the countryside, I merely pointed out that you don't because your from Manchester.

I've never been to America, stop talking out your arse.

I'm a keyboard warrior now domwoods? Because I disagree with what you say? terrific logic.

I sincerely hope your a Man United fan, that must be why your miserable.

Ha ha , your wrong tommy all my family r scoucers , I'm a Liverpool fan . I don't mind u disagreeing with me but is there any need to patronise me ?? I don't insult anyone on here

Good lad, I'm Liverpool fan too, half my family from there. Scouser living in manchester, ouch haha