I'm talking about if you needed help or that thing called justice, does it still work like that? I mean could you then get that justice without having to worry about new problems, or has that part of it changed as well?

Its not there now by any means, if it ever was.

I guess some of them might help you-but God only knows what they would want out of you in return. I wouldn't want to go down that road. They don't seem like the kind of guys who do things only out of the goodness of their hearts.

Alright, but to think that they were originally there to help those who couldn't go to the police, is just..it's sort of the greatest irony of it all. To have one of the families back you up and protect you from the police and other scums seems like the dream world.

The good, lmao...

Sure you reach out because you have a problem and they help you out with it, then the next thing you know they own 50% f your business or you have 2 "no show" employees" on the books...

I've told this story before, but...

I met a guy who was a retired cop from queens. He walked a beat, when cops walked a beat. He knew everyone in the hood, wiseguys, crooks and the old ladies.

Someone had been breaking into cars in the area and stealing radios etc.. Finally one day he walks by the local social club and talks to the guys and asks if they have any ideas, etc.

A couple days later they tell him they think it's so and so around the corner and he thanks them. He knows the kid in question and the kid is s drug addict. The guys offer to 'speak" with the kid and he declines and says he'll take care of it.

Over the next few weeks he can't nail the kid down and stops by and talk with his mother a few times, etc..

Then one day he sees the kid walking right at him, the kid has his head down and doesn't see him as they get within 25 or 30 feet of each other. Then he notices that both of the kids hands are in casts with his hands broken.

He stops the kid and asks what happened and the kid says, I fell off of my bike.....

The bad always heavily outweighed any of the good. If there is one way to kill your own community's economic future- corruption, extortion, etc are the best ways to do it.

But there is no doubt that many of these guys either for their self-interest or because of sentimental feelings helped out people in the neighborhood and gave out charity to local kids. Basciano and Wild Bill were both examples of that. That sort of extreme duality.

You could also argue there were some rules at some time, and regardless of how many times they have been broken since then- they are far, far better then the other kinds OC or gangs out there. The kinds that have 13 year old slinging on the street or shooting civilians indiscriminately in their apartment buildings.

Goodfellas summed up the mob's purpose the best. They settled problems for people who could not go to the cops. A police force for wise guys.

Don Corleone was a fictional character. As LittleNicky mentioned some guys had a charitable nature, but lets be honest, most of these guys did that to help gain support from the same neighborhoods they were robbing. Just like Nicky Barnes used to hand out turkeys to the same people he was killing with smack. Sure on a personal basis some of these guys are fun to hang around and even friendly, until you cross them. Maybe there was a time, probably in Italy, when the mafia had altruistic motives but that was probably several hundred years ago if it was ever like that at all. The only good side of the mafia is they are fun to read about and they help sell newspapers. That is the only legit contribution they make to society. I realize some of these guys have legit or have gone into legit business. I am speaking about those that are still involved in criminal activity.

What good side? the mob is and always has been a glorified bunch of greedy sociopaths. People who would break your legs without blinking if they could make buck and get away with it. The only good side is that they make a great subject for scorceses movies.

Nicky,

I agree they are often two people, biological family life and LCN life. In 2008 I had an opportunity to treat a retired made guy in his 70's at our treatment center in Florida whose alcoholism really took off after he retired. For obvious reasons I cannot say who this was but this guy had a huge amount of guilt and shame over the life he had led, shed real tears on more than one occasion. I asked him why he chose that life and he said it was because he didn't know there was any other way to live, not sure I believed that but guess it is possible. We treat the family as well as the patient so I did 1 session with him, his Wife and 3 adult children and 1 session with just the Wife and three kids. The family members were fully aware of what he did for a living, though probably not in great detail. In spite of this they loved this man very much and were very loyal to him. I asked the family the standard questions, one of which was there any abuse in the home, and they all reported he was a very kind and loving Father and Husband. At no time did I get the feeling they were afraid of him. Anyway when the 6 of us sat down together they gave this guy a good tongue lashing about how he made them worry about him everyday for about 40 years. There was a moment when they were speaking to him that he had a look on his face that reminded me of an innocent six year old who just got caught eating Oreos before dinner. There is definitely two sides to this guy.

Another example from Goodfellas. The restaurant owner asks Paulie to help him because Tommy is walking all over the joint. Paulie signs on as a partner and they bust the joint out. So much for help. Don't know if its a true story but sounds like something that would happen.

lmao... do you know any mob guys personally mbo??

The whole idea about them being there to help people is BS. That is what I thought was great about some books like John Dickie's books, they expose how many lies that Italian organized crime has told about its own history. exposed the BS about being the people protector from the Spaniards in southern Italy and how they are just the descendants of prison gangs.

not at sll

bnut i guess you are gonna tell me a story about the mobster with a heart of gold?

nah was gonna refer to the guy with balls of steel

Vinny lived four houses away from me for more than ten years. And it's true, he was capable of great generosity. But the truth is, you didn't want him in your life. When he did for you, he'd always remind you about it. At the very least.

But like you said, Nicky. That's the duality of it all. Some of them do it out of guilt. Some of them do it to gain favor with you and get something that they want. And some of them do it out of the genuine goodness of their hearts. But you never know what you're gonna get with them, so it's not worth the risk of inviting them into your life.

I have said this before....Look at the condition of urban neighborhoods today as opposed to circa 1960,try to get a commercial building start in a city where there was a large LCN presence now as opposed to 30 years ago, look at at gerneral laborors pay today (even accounting for inflation) compared to 30 or even 20 years ago, ask yourself if a NJ Governor would have dared kill a massive tunnel project 25 years ago, ask yourself how many 3 year old children were hit by a stray LCN bullet as compared to what happens today, ask yourself if the interstate highway syetem would EVER get built today, and when you come to the conclusion it never would, ask your self WHY...and you will see there was GOOD, and that it is mostly gone

Ask the extortion victim with the broken legs,the tenants paying overprice or all the people who just somehow got in the way of the mob making money, how they feel about the good side.

didnt he have a problem with a neighbor over a tree?

Wait a minute, was there ever a good side to the mob? Just saying

did it ever exist?

Yeah, I'm not gonna go into it here, but that's the PERFECT example .

I have been in, and around the life for neaerly 40 years, and in all of that time I can not think of a single person who ended up in harms way, who one way or the other didn't put themselves in that position
Was there and is there violence and death that made no sense and were ill timed and an over reaction?
You bet.
But the bakery owner who just minded his own business and got shaken down and crippled becuse he didn't pay, is a myth much beyond 1925 or 30.

"I have been in, and around the life for neaerly 40 years, and in all of that time I can not think of a single person who ended up in harms way, who one way or the other didn't put themselves in that position"

EXACTLY Arm, I was thinking something similar. It's just like those thousands of women every year who deserved it.

The only good side was they kept the neighborhoods safe for the women and children. That was back before the the 1990's. It was said that people in the Italian parts of East Harlem and the Bronx didn't even have to lock their doors.

You're saying honest garbage haulers and construction companies in the NY/NJ areas aren't being threatened and shaken down? Did you ever hear of the Barstow and Kubecka case? They were honest garbage haulers who were murdered by the Lucchese Famiy.

It's much more rare for innocents to be killed by mob sanctioned hits than by the streetgangs, but don't deny that it happens.

They are better now than they were. They don't really use violence that anymore, and that's good. As long as they aren't doing violence, I have no problems with their activities. Everything they're involved in is legal for the government and they are way more corrupt and violent than the any mafia. The mafia probably has more morals than the government. The mafia usually doesn't target innocent people, and when they do, most of the time they guy who did gets in trouble. With the government, its just part of doing business.

Most people involved in "mafia" or "gangs" are just regular people, to them they don't know any different. There are whole families involved, generations of people raised in the same neighborhood or even house. The majority of people in those neighborhoods don't have education or good paying jobs so they find other ways to make money. Italians were discriminated against and weren't afforded these opportunities when they started to immigrate here in the late 1800s/early 1900s. Over the next 100 years they rose to be one of the highest earning ethnic groups in America. Growing up Italian in New York at that time you would have a significantly higher chance of joining a gang than you would today.

Great News Igancio! I just talked to the teacher from your Mob Excuses 101 class. She loved the term paper you just posted and said you received an Aye-Plus in da class! You've now fulfilled all the prerequisites to start attending Riker's Community College. Good luck!

^^ this guy makes me chuckle just a bit.

Its not an excuse, its reason the Italian "mob" doesn't have as many members as it used to. Believe it or not, people who are raised with a good education, safe living environment, and financial stability are very unlikely to join a criminal gang.