3 registered members (Kangaroo Don, BugsyM, 1 invisible),
551
guests, and 12
spiders. |
Key:
Admin,
Global Mod,
Mod
|
|
Forums21
Topics42,834
Posts1,070,206
Members10,349
|
Most Online1,100 Jun 10th, 2024
|
|
|
Re: Is idolizing or adniring mobsters warranted?
[Re: Moe_Tilden]
#775623
05/04/14 01:20 PM
05/04/14 01:20 PM
|
Joined: Dec 2006
Posts: 23,296 Throggs Neck
pizzaboy
The Fuckin Doctor
|
The Fuckin Doctor
Joined: Dec 2006
Posts: 23,296
Throggs Neck
|
How did Irish Americans do so well for themselves? They didn't have any criminal organisations looking out for them? Similar profile to the Italians too. Not as privileged as the German or English immigrants. Come to think of it, how did the Jews do so well for themselves also? The Jews and the Irish were right next to the Italians when OC got started in New York. But all three of these groups had a desire for upward mobility. They didn't cry about discrimination. They sacrificed to educate their children. And today their grandchildren and great grandchildren are reaping the benefits of that assimilation and upward mobility.
"I got news for you. If it wasn't for the toilet, there would be no books." --- George Costanza.
|
|
|
Re: Is idolizing or adniring mobsters warranted?
[Re: NNY78]
#775628
05/04/14 02:17 PM
05/04/14 02:17 PM
|
Joined: Dec 2006
Posts: 23,296 Throggs Neck
pizzaboy
The Fuckin Doctor
|
The Fuckin Doctor
Joined: Dec 2006
Posts: 23,296
Throggs Neck
|
Say what you will about the Sopranos but it was not a flattering portrayal of the present day Mafia. Once you've seen Tony Soprano pick up the newspaper in his underwear, it's hard to accept Don Corleone in his tuxedo . Not to mention seeing Gigi die while taking a shit .
"I got news for you. If it wasn't for the toilet, there would be no books." --- George Costanza.
|
|
|
Re: Is idolizing or adniring mobsters warranted?
[Re: pizzaboy]
#775632
05/04/14 02:34 PM
05/04/14 02:34 PM
|
Joined: Jul 2013
Posts: 3,446 Alabama
dixiemafia
ROLL TIDE!!!!!
|
ROLL TIDE!!!!!
Underboss
Joined: Jul 2013
Posts: 3,446
Alabama
|
They didn't cry about discrimination. They sacrificed to educate their children. And today their grandchildren and great grandchildren are reaping the benefits of that assimilation and upward mobility. I think that was the main factor in all of it starting. Back in those days it was much harder to "get ahead" in life than it is now. Everybody was poor back then and to get ahead meant really living. I don't agree with what they done, but you have to admire how they decided their family would no longer struggle in life and they went out and took it. Kind of like one of the opening lines in The Departed: I don't want to be a product of my environment. I want my environment to be a product of me. Years ago we had the church. That was only a way of saying - we had each other. The Knights of Columbus were real head-breakers; true guineas. They took over their piece of the city. Twenty years after an Irishman couldn't get a fucking job, we had the presidency. May he rest in peace. That's what the ni**ers don't realize. If I got one thing against the black chappies, it's this - no one gives it to you. You have to take it.I only added it all above to get it all, none of the above is of my own words. Just talking about the mentality of gangsters.
Last edited by dixiemafia; 05/04/14 02:34 PM.
|
|
|
Re: Is idolizing or adniring mobsters warranted?
[Re: HairyKnuckles]
#775652
05/04/14 05:14 PM
05/04/14 05:14 PM
|
Joined: Aug 2010
Posts: 2,292 NJ
carmela
Underboss
|
Underboss
Joined: Aug 2010
Posts: 2,292
NJ
|
Idolizing anyone outside of your own family is pretty retarded and never warranted. Agreed. This question is not Mafia related, but what about dying for somebody else but for your own family? Is dying for your country (in a war overseas) warranted? I don't know, HK. But if you know me, you know I'm not that deep. Speaking for myself, I'm pretty cut and dry and I'd die (willingly) for my husband or my kids only.
La madre degli idioti e' sempre incinta.
|
|
|
Re: Is idolizing or adniring mobsters warranted?
[Re: pizzaboy]
#775657
05/04/14 05:45 PM
05/04/14 05:45 PM
|
Joined: Jul 2010
Posts: 2,989
getthesenets
Underboss
|
Underboss
Joined: Jul 2010
Posts: 2,989
|
How did Irish Americans do so well for themselves? They didn't have any criminal organisations looking out for them? Similar profile to the Italians too. Not as privileged as the German or English immigrants. Come to think of it, how did the Jews do so well for themselves also? The Jews and the Irish were right next to the Italians when OC got started in New York. But all three of these groups had a desire for upward mobility. They didn't cry about discrimination. They sacrificed to educate their children. And today their grandchildren and great grandchildren are reaping the benefits of that assimilation and upward mobility. All true,,but we both know that in Boston, several cities in NJ, and NY, and along the eastern seaboard that there are communities of people descended from those SAME immigrants who are part of the working poor, on public assistance, or in criminal system. The implication of what you wrote is that..Jews,Irish and Italians did things that Blacks didn't or don't do. It doesn't run on the six o clock news but there are and have been successful African, African American, and Caribbean Americans who have been doing what EVERY other group in this country have done. The old money Black families are mostly down south , are 5-6 generations Fisk and Morehouse grads and made their fortunes in the jim crow era South that makes the hardships that ethnic white immigrants experienced seem like Disneyland. The "Didn't cry about discrimination" line is really misinformed...and whether it's clear or not.....the Civil Rights legislation passed benefited all non wasp male Americans as it made it illegal to discriminate based on race, religion, gender.etc. Look up up the college and commercial opportunities that opened up to ethnic whites as a result of civil rights legislation being passed. So those people "crying about discrimination" somehow ended up benefitting others. No beef at all, I've just heard this stance before from people and always make these points. I'm an immigrant myself and have had to challenge White,Black,Latino,etc immigrants when this topic comes up and they say the same things.
|
|
|
Re: Is idolizing or adniring mobsters warranted?
[Re: getthesenets]
#775661
05/04/14 06:01 PM
05/04/14 06:01 PM
|
Joined: Dec 2006
Posts: 23,296 Throggs Neck
pizzaboy
The Fuckin Doctor
|
The Fuckin Doctor
Joined: Dec 2006
Posts: 23,296
Throggs Neck
|
How did Irish Americans do so well for themselves? They didn't have any criminal organisations looking out for them? Similar profile to the Italians too. Not as privileged as the German or English immigrants. Come to think of it, how did the Jews do so well for themselves also? They didn't cry about discrimination. They sacrificed to educate their children. And today their grandchildren and great grandchildren are reaping the benefits of that assimilation and upward mobility. The implication of what you wrote is that..Jews,Irish and Italians did things that Blacks didn't or don't do. Well, you're partially correct. There WAS an implication to what I wrote. I won't deny that. But it wasn't about Blacks. It was about the newer immigrants who come here and refuse to learn the language, do nothing but complain about discrimination, and curse this country all while living off the government tit. If that makes me a cranky old White guy, so be it. But the original implication certainly wasn't against Blacks. Blacks were in this country 200 years before my grandparents were, and I haven't lost sight of that.
"I got news for you. If it wasn't for the toilet, there would be no books." --- George Costanza.
|
|
|
Re: Is idolizing or adniring mobsters warranted?
[Re: pizzaboy]
#775662
05/04/14 06:11 PM
05/04/14 06:11 PM
|
Joined: Jun 2013
Posts: 2,111 New Jersey
Dellacroce
Underboss
|
Underboss
Joined: Jun 2013
Posts: 2,111
New Jersey
|
How did Irish Americans do so well for themselves? They didn't have any criminal organisations looking out for them? Similar profile to the Italians too. Not as privileged as the German or English immigrants. Come to think of it, how did the Jews do so well for themselves also? They didn't cry about discrimination. They sacrificed to educate their children. And today their grandchildren and great grandchildren are reaping the benefits of that assimilation and upward mobility. The implication of what you wrote is that..Jews,Irish and Italians did things that Blacks didn't or don't do. Well, you're partially correct. There WAS an implication to what I wrote. I won't deny that. But it wasn't about Blacks. It was about the newer immigrants who come here and refuse to learn the language, do nothing but complain about discrimination, and curse this country all while living off the government tit. If that makes me a cranky old White guy, so be it. But the original implication certainly wasn't against Blacks. Blacks were in this country 200 years before my grandparents were, and I haven't lost sight of that. No….It makes you a RACIST!
"Let me tell you something. There's no nobility in poverty. I've been a poor man, and I've been a rich man. And I choose rich every fucking time."
-Jordan Belfort
|
|
|
Re: Is idolizing or adniring mobsters warranted?
[Re: pizzaboy]
#775663
05/04/14 06:20 PM
05/04/14 06:20 PM
|
Joined: Feb 2013
Posts: 722 Midwest
LittleNicky
Underboss
|
Underboss
Joined: Feb 2013
Posts: 722
Midwest
|
All I am going to say is this, nets. Applied to the blacks- it's not allegedly, its not maybe. It's fact. It's bore out by the empirical evidence- whether crime and murder rates, single motherhood, education levels, median income. Non immigrant blacks significantly under-perform every group out there. Immigrant blacks tend to very well. Which suggests culture. Which is racist. Anyways.
Now in explaining this issue you can come back and say it was racism (which i find unlikely, considering Nigerian immigrants outperform every single group out there including some asians and all whites), or slavery, or drug laws, or whatever the popular theory floating around sociology departments today. But don't deny the basic facts or act somehow shocked about what everyone knows to be the state of affairs.
Last edited by LittleNicky; 05/04/14 06:28 PM.
Should probably ask Mr. Kierney. I guess if you're Italian, you should be in prison. I've read the RICO Act, and I can tell you it's more appropriate... for some of those guys over in Washington than it is for me or any of my fellas here
|
|
|
Re: Is idolizing or adniring mobsters warranted?
[Re: getthesenets]
#775665
05/04/14 06:33 PM
05/04/14 06:33 PM
|
Joined: Dec 2006
Posts: 23,296 Throggs Neck
pizzaboy
The Fuckin Doctor
|
The Fuckin Doctor
Joined: Dec 2006
Posts: 23,296
Throggs Neck
|
People ARE individuals but.....hard not to notice patterns......I feel you on that.... I think what you're saying is, sometimes the stereotypes are true. And I agree. Sometimes they are true. Some Italians are in the Mafia. Some Irish people are drunks. Some Jews are cheap. Some Blacks are on welfare. And on and on and on. But the key is to try to look past those small percentages of people who insist on living down to the stereotype, and to judge each person as an individual.
"I got news for you. If it wasn't for the toilet, there would be no books." --- George Costanza.
|
|
|
Re: Is idolizing or adniring mobsters warranted?
[Re: getthesenets]
#775666
05/04/14 06:38 PM
05/04/14 06:38 PM
|
Joined: Jul 2010
Posts: 2,989
getthesenets
Underboss
|
Underboss
Joined: Jul 2010
Posts: 2,989
|
nicky I wrote this in the Donald Sterling thread and it applies to you I don't have a problem with anybody having certain views that I disagree with...just be open about it. I've worked with, gone to school with and even shared dorm room with people who held prejudiced views towards Blacks.
I have my circle of friends, family and loved ones..person who doesn't like Blacks isn't going to keep the sun from coming up tomorrow. When your views prevent you from doing your job or treating others with common decency..THAT'S when it's a problem
The thing is that, regardless of the rhetoric that comes out of people's mouths about typical racist commentary...their real ire isn't focused on criminal/public assistance "minorities"....those people actually make them feel good/better about themselves.
Real hatred is focused on regular "minorities" who are doing what every other regular American is doing...working, getting educated, following rules and succeeding.
Election of Obama has brought a lot of these feelings to the surface.
In Sterling's case...though he's always been who he is....don't disregard the fact that Magic Johnson is a successful businessman and has partial stake in the L.A. Dodgers.
Every post even remotely related to Black criminals....or Blacks fucking up .....seems to attract you like honey to a bee. Those are your favorite types of Blacks, huh? Entire site devoted to the criminal underworld, yet when ANYTHING involving Black street guys, or Blacks on lower end of socio economic ladder comes up, you pull out your sociology hat. quick look at your posts support what I'm saying. give it a rest.....we get it...you're fascinated with Black pathology.....makes you feel better about your great life.
|
|
|
Re: Is idolizing or adniring mobsters warranted?
[Re: HairyKnuckles]
#775667
05/04/14 06:43 PM
05/04/14 06:43 PM
|
Joined: Feb 2013
Posts: 722 Midwest
LittleNicky
Underboss
|
Underboss
Joined: Feb 2013
Posts: 722
Midwest
|
A argument rises or falls on its merits, not its source. I could be satan for all it matters, it doesn't change the factual nature of what i said. Either vaguely relate your claims to verifiable evidence or this isn't a conversation worth having.
But thanks for the junior high school psychoanalyzing. It's about a C paper in about 7th grade. Is this what passes of intellectual discourse in your group of friends? Attack the source, attempt new age psychoanalyzing, and just completely ignore anything approaching reality?
Last edited by LittleNicky; 05/04/14 06:47 PM.
Should probably ask Mr. Kierney. I guess if you're Italian, you should be in prison. I've read the RICO Act, and I can tell you it's more appropriate... for some of those guys over in Washington than it is for me or any of my fellas here
|
|
|
Re: Is idolizing or adniring mobsters warranted?
[Re: HairyKnuckles]
#775678
05/04/14 07:30 PM
05/04/14 07:30 PM
|
Joined: Feb 2013
Posts: 722 Midwest
LittleNicky
Underboss
|
Underboss
Joined: Feb 2013
Posts: 722
Midwest
|
Again, you seem to lack the ability to separate the merits of the argument from personal attack. This is therefore not a conversation worth having. I'm just going to leave this article about immigration, culture and performance here from the ultra conservative, right wing NYT: http://www.nytimes.com/2014/01/26/opinion/sunday/what-drives-success.htmlI hope the "cognitive dissonance" (i love psychology), plays itself out before you go back to pretending not to understand on average differences (just because A group on average differs from B group by 5% in trait C doesn't mean a member of group A will have more trait C then a member of group B, in fact many individuals in group B will have more trait C than members of group A).
Should probably ask Mr. Kierney. I guess if you're Italian, you should be in prison. I've read the RICO Act, and I can tell you it's more appropriate... for some of those guys over in Washington than it is for me or any of my fellas here
|
|
|
Re: Is idolizing or adniring mobsters warranted?
[Re: pizzaboy]
#775808
05/05/14 11:33 AM
05/05/14 11:33 AM
|
Joined: Aug 2008
Posts: 8,534
IvyLeague
|
Joined: Aug 2008
Posts: 8,534
|
And what if you're on the flip side of that home improvement?
True story: A guy buys the house across the street from the _________ on Schurz Avenue, right on the water, here in Throggs Neck. There are beautiful hundred year old trees on the property. One day, _____ decides he wants a better view of the water and "asks" the guy to cut the trees down. He politely declines. Awhile later, the guy and his family go on vacation, come home and find these beautiful trees cut down to the ground. Less than a year later, the guy is so fucking scared he sells the house and moves away.
My point is, you can cherry pick these scenarios all day long. But unless you've lived with these people all your life, and you know firsthand what they expect of you when they do you a favor, you really aren't in a position to give an objective answer.
Don Corleone doing favors on his daughter's wedding day is a fantasy. In America, anyway. I admit, in Sicily, what with the history, things are a little different. Just out of curiosity, why did you remove you-know-who's name, PB? The guy's family's problems with their neighbors are fairly well known and it's not like he has an upstanding reputation one has to be careful not to besmirch.
Mods should mind their own business and leave poster's profile signatures alone.
|
|
|
Re: Is idolizing or adniring mobsters warranted?
[Re: IvyLeague]
#775812
05/05/14 11:36 AM
05/05/14 11:36 AM
|
Joined: Dec 2006
Posts: 23,296 Throggs Neck
pizzaboy
The Fuckin Doctor
|
The Fuckin Doctor
Joined: Dec 2006
Posts: 23,296
Throggs Neck
|
Just out of curiosity, why did you remove you-know-who's name, PB? The guy's family's problems with their neighbors are fairly well known and it's not like he has an upstanding reputation one has to be careful not to besmirch. I know, and the name is still up in a similar post I made a few years ago. I guess I just feel bad for his ex because she's sending three sons to prison this summer. And actually, one of them never made bail, so he's already at the MCC pending sentence. So call me an old softie .
"I got news for you. If it wasn't for the toilet, there would be no books." --- George Costanza.
|
|
|
Re: Is idolizing or adniring mobsters warranted?
[Re: HuronSocialAthletic]
#775861
05/05/14 02:18 PM
05/05/14 02:18 PM
|
Joined: Oct 2013
Posts: 5,094
Moe_Tilden
ForeverBotheringIranians
|
ForeverBotheringIranians
Joined: Oct 2013
Posts: 5,094
|
Sure It is.
These are individuals that live outside of law & order. They cheat the system & in many cases live better lives because of it. Money & power without Having to go through years of monotonous schooling & sucking the cocks of authoritative figures.
These are admirable things to any clock punching average Joe. You mean the exact same way all of Gotti's underlings sucked his cock? And Persico? And Gigante? There is something very emasculating about scores of 6 ft. "tough" men in their twenties, thirties and forties being terrified of a 5 ft. 5, 69 year old man like Carmine Galante. That to me is every bit as pathetic as someone working a desk job and being disillusioned with their boss. You look at guys like Louis Daidone and Alphonse Persico. They were intelligent enough to go to college but chose the easy way. Look where it got them. Rotting in prison. Look at Anthony Casso. Nobody brave enough to say boo to him. Then as soon as he goes to prison, the "tough guys" crawl out of the woodwork to start extorting his elderly wife. Such men of honour... such admiring traits.
Last edited by Moe_Tilden; 05/05/14 02:21 PM.
I invoke my right under the 5th amendment of the United States constitution and decline to answer the question.
|
|
|
Re: Is idolizing or adniring mobsters warranted?
[Re: Moe_Tilden]
#775876
05/05/14 04:01 PM
05/05/14 04:01 PM
|
Joined: Dec 2006
Posts: 23,296 Throggs Neck
pizzaboy
The Fuckin Doctor
|
The Fuckin Doctor
Joined: Dec 2006
Posts: 23,296
Throggs Neck
|
Sure It is.
These are individuals that live outside of law & order. They cheat the system & in many cases live better lives because of it. Money & power without Having to go through years of monotonous schooling & sucking the cocks of authoritative figures.
These are admirable things to any clock punching average Joe. You mean the exact same way all of Gotti's underlings sucked his cock? And Persico? And Gigante? That's actually a very fair point. What's especially sickening is watching middle-aged men drooling all over the sons and other young family members of these guys. And I'm seriously talking about watching a fifty year old bookmaker fawn all over a 19 year old kid because he's the son of a local wiseguy, hoping the dopey kid will "put a good word in for him." And all all that ego stroking does is turn the kid into a bigger punk than he already is. It's the reason it's so hard for some of these kids to avoid getting caught up in the life. It's a vicious cycle.
"I got news for you. If it wasn't for the toilet, there would be no books." --- George Costanza.
|
|
|
|