"America, America, God shed his grace on thee, and crown thy good with BROTHERHOOD from sea to shining sea."

( just in case anyone has forgotten that verse ).


Don Cardi

Sorry, but I've certainly never "shit my pants and run" when seeing threads about Michael Moore. In fact, I've posted articles numerous times showing Michael Moore's lies and inaccuracies (including ones by liberals), yet you have never responded to them. Who is the one shitting his pants and running here?

I never said I would be willing to join Bush. Not once. Never.

Doc

Sorry, but I've certainly never "shit my pants and run" when seeing threads about Michael Moore. In fact, I've posted articles numerous times showing Michael Moore's lies and inaccuracies (including ones by liberals), yet you have never responded to them. Who is the one shitting his pants and running here? [/QB][/quote]I never saw these threads. Please repost them or PM them to me. Don't bother with anything biased. Oh, and I know what you're already gonna say about Moore's film being biased.

Doc

Donferro, you find nothing wrong with that quote? I take it you don't want to see a unified country? How CAN there be a unified country if you are saying everyone who voted for Bush is dumb?


I realize you didn't "make up" the quote but you are still using it. It does nothing but drive a wedge further between the two parties. [/quote]I think the quote perfectly exemplifies my true feelings twoards this situation. I really do wonder how all these people could be so careless. As for driving a futher wedge between the parties? Sure it does. But a lot of democrats feel like me and don't want to accept Bush.

Doc

Donferro, you find nothing wrong with that quote? I take it you don't want to see a unified country? How CAN there be a unified country if you are saying everyone who voted for Bush is dumb?


I realize you didn't "make up" the quote but you are still using it. It does nothing but drive a wedge further between the two parties. [/quote]I think the quote perfectly exemplifies my true feelings twoards this situation. I really do wonder how all these people could be so careless. As for driving a futher wedge between the parties? Sure it does. But a lot of democrats feel like me and don't want to accept Bush.

Doc [/b][/quote]I hope I don't hear a single thing out of you about Bush being a divider and not a uniter because "you and a lot of democrats" are not even making an effort.


Look at it outside of Democratic/Republican for a minute. you don't see something deeper when A PARTY wins the Presidency, AND gains seats in the House and Senate? The way the "other party" is going is obviously not the way the rest of the United States wants to go. By keeping the country as divided as it is and with the same platform, the "other party" will not have a chance of gaining seats or the Presidency. Am I the only one who sees this?


edit: So even though Bush won the election fair and square, he won the popular vote and the electoral vote by a clear margin, you still don't accept him? If Kerry would have had Bush's numbers and I said I don't accept kerry what would YOU HONESTLY say to me?

Not when one party controls everything and a president lays out groundwork for four years of things I don't agree with. I see what you say, but I hate Bush. Period. Unless I see some changes for the better here in the next four years. I will always hate bush.

Just think of my hate being like your hate for Michael Moore. It won't change unless the person you hate does something to please both sides.


MY BOTTOM LINE IS THIS!
I'm not as worried about the country being divided as I am about the power Bush now has and his plan for the next 4 years.

Look at Vietnam, we were separated. But we got over it once Nixon was removed. This is the same situation. Let's remove the problem.

Doc

But that is how the American people voted. You can hate Bush all you want, BUT you can't have it both ways. You can't criticize Bush for not being a uniter in one breath and then say you don't accept him as President in another.

If America liked the way the Democratic party wanted to take America don't you think they would have at least GAINED seats in the Senate and House?

except nobody elected Michael Moore :p but seriously, I think the problem is that what the left wants to "please both sides" is to just have things they want passed.

For simplicity sake: Republicans are against Abortion and want it to be illegal, Democrats are for it.

I hear all these people saying well if Bush leaves abortions alone I guess I can start to accept him. But what about the Republicans who want it banned? If Kerry was elected and Republicans started pushing for a ban, we would be told Kerry won and its his decision.

only 2 years guaranteed. But once again this is what the American people wanted.


I hope you are not a DIE HARD LIBERAL, because if you are you are not going to be happy with the Democratic party over the next few years. The plan they had didn't work, they will go back to the drawing table and try and form a different platform.

The democratic party that Kerry ran for and the One that whoever runs for in 2008 will be ALOT DIFFERENT

also donferro you have to update that number. The number of votes for Bush is now 59,459,000

How many for Kerry now?

I just got home and I see that the Moore Clones are at it again. Nothing better to get peoples blood moving then Ballbuster 1 and Ballbuster 2

Come on folks, what do we really care if these folks want to stand up all day and say that they will not stand behind Bush.

What difference do these people really make. While others are moving on with their lifes and making something of themeselves these others will waste there time bucking a system that has long moved passed them.

What do these people have that they can stop progress now that the election is over. That is right NOTHING!

So let the windbags BLOW, just like the winter weather, you will get use to them.


WOW...this just in after the election JOBS ARE UP OVER 337,000 up in October. and look at the stock market Up Up Up after Bush is back in for four more years. Wow, why is that?

How many for Kerry now? [/b][/quote]55,900,000 give or take

59,459,765 Bush
55,949,407 Kerry


3,510,358 difference

But that is how the American people voted. You can hate Bush all you want, BUT you can't have it both ways. You can't criticize Bush for not being a uniter in one breath and then say you don't accept him as President in another.

If America liked the way the Democratic party wanted to take America don't you think they would have at least GAINED seats in the Senate and House?

Quote:

Just think of my hate being like your hate for Michael Moore. It won't change unless the person you hate does something to please both sides.

except nobody elected Michael Moore :p but seriously, I think the problem is that what the left wants to "please both sides" is to just have things they want passed.

For simplicity sake: Republicans are against Abortion and want it to be illegal, Democrats are for it.

I hear all these people saying well if Bush leaves abortions alone I guess I can start to accept him. But what about the Republicans who want it banned? If Kerry was elected and Republicans started pushing for a ban, we would be told Kerry won and its his decision.

Quote:

I'm not as worried about the country being divided as I am about the power Bush now has and his plan for the next 4 years.

only 2 years guaranteed. But once again this is what the American people wanted.


I hope you are not a DIE HARD LIBERAL, because if you are you are not going to be happy with the Democratic party over the next few years. The plan they had didn't work, they will go back to the drawing table and try and form a different platform.

The democratic party that Kerry ran for and the One that whoever runs for in 2008 will be ALOT DIFFERENT [/quote]UHGGG!

Do you understand what I am SAYING!?

I don't like Republican(mainly Bush's) ideology. Now that republicans control our government on all levels...I AM ANGRY! I DO NOT WANT TO ACCEPT BUSH! GET IT!?

I will do everything in my power to make sure a man like Bush never shows his face in DC again.

I UNDERSTAND WHAT YOU MEAN ABOUT THE ISSUES BEING SPLIT! But now that Democrats have a smaller voice in the government, I am VERY upset. I'm not happy and telling me to get used to it won't solve anything. I will fight George W. Bush until he brings everyone to the table, or resigns. PERIOD! Now lets get off this subject.

Doc

But that is how the American people voted. You can hate Bush all you want, BUT you can't have it both ways. You can't criticize Bush for not being a uniter in one breath and then say you don't accept him as President in another.

If America liked the way the Democratic party wanted to take America don't you think they would have at least GAINED seats in the Senate and House?

Quote:

Just think of my hate being like your hate for Michael Moore. It won't change unless the person you hate does something to please both sides.

except nobody elected Michael Moore :p but seriously, I think the problem is that what the left wants to "please both sides" is to just have things they want passed.

For simplicity sake: Republicans are against Abortion and want it to be illegal, Democrats are for it.

I hear all these people saying well if Bush leaves abortions alone I guess I can start to accept him. But what about the Republicans who want it banned? If Kerry was elected and Republicans started pushing for a ban, we would be told Kerry won and its his decision.

Quote:

I'm not as worried about the country being divided as I am about the power Bush now has and his plan for the next 4 years.

only 2 years guaranteed. But once again this is what the American people wanted.


I hope you are not a DIE HARD LIBERAL, because if you are you are not going to be happy with the Democratic party over the next few years. The plan they had didn't work, they will go back to the drawing table and try and form a different platform.

The democratic party that Kerry ran for and the One that whoever runs for in 2008 will be ALOT DIFFERENT [/quote]UHGGG!

Do you understand what I am SAYING!?

I don't like Republican(mainly Bush's) ideology. Now that republicans control our government on all levels...I AM ANGRY! I DO NOT WANT TO ACCEPT BUSH! GET IT!?

I will do everything in my power to make sure a man like Bush never shows his face in DC again.

I UNDERSTAND WHAT YOU MEAN ABOUT THE ISSUES BEING SPLIT! But now that Democrats have a smaller voice in the government, I am VERY upset. I'm not happy and telling me to get used to it won't solve anything. I will fight George W. Bush until he brings everyone to the table, or resigns. PERIOD! Now lets get off this subject.

Doc [/b][/quote]wow you just showed me alot there.

Huh?

Showed you that I hate Bush?

Did you really not understand what I was saying?

Were you implying something about me?

Please, indulge me.

Doc

I never said I would be willing to join Bush. Not once. Never.

Doc [/b][/quote]No, you never did say that yourself, and I never claimed that you did. So why did you take my post as a reply to yours?

I was making a general statement.


Don Cardi

I thought you were alot smarter and mature than that. I don't mean that as some kind of low insult I'm telling you what I feel.

You are acting very immature because the American People elected someone that you don't like so you start throwing a hissy fit because of it.

You are saying how you are going to do everything your power til Bush brings everyone together or resigns, yet you said yourself you won't accept him. You want things your way or the highway. If Kerry won we would have had to accept it, but since he lost you are acting like a child.


now respond however you want and I'll drop it, I won't respond to what you say.

I never said I would be willing to join Bush. Not once. Never.

Doc [/b][/quote]No, you never did say that yourself, and I never claimed that you did. So why did you take my post as a reply to yours?

I was making a general statement.


Don Cardi [/b][/quote]Half of this thread is me saying I will not join Bush.

You posted your remark.

You can see why I deducted it was about me.

If it's not about me, which you say it isn't, then you should have made clear you were not including me.

You see my point I'm sure.

Doc

I just got home and I see that the Moore Clones are at it again. Nothing better to get peoples blood moving then Ballbuster 1 and Ballbuster 2

Come on folks, what do we really care if these folks want to stand up all day and say that they will not stand behind Bush.

What difference do these people really make. While others are moving on with their lifes and making something of themeselves these others will waste there time bucking a system that has long moved passed them.

What do these people have that they can stop progress now that the election is over. That is right NOTHING!

So let the windbags BLOW, just like the winter weather, you will get use to them.


WOW...this just in after the election JOBS ARE UP OVER 337,000 up in October. and look at the stock market Up Up Up after Bush is back in for four more years. Wow, why is that?

You still don't see my point. Please read my last 4-5 posts about why I won't accept Bush, and why I want him gone. Skip over the yelling if you have to, I felt it was the only way to get through to you. (I guess I was wrong)

I'm not throughing a fit. You are making me yell to get my point across that you still don't understand.

Go ahead and reply. I don't care. I'm going to do some stuff now so I won't be back to post for a little while.

Bye

Doc

DonFerro,

May I suggest that you please relax and stop getting yourself worked up over this? You will get yourself sick, and what for? For a situation that you have no control over? Don't do that to yourself, it is not healthy. What can you really do that is within your power to keep Bush out of Washington? Think about what you are saying and doing to yourself! Chill out a bit, relax, pull back and realize that whatever you do, you cannot control the results, so there is absolutely no reason to get yourself sick over it.
I sincerely mean it. Don't get yourself sick over this.


Don Cardi

DonFerro,

May I suggest that you please relax and stop getting yourself worked up over this? You will get yourself sick, and what for? For a situation that you have no control over? Don't do that to yourself, it is not healthy. What can you really do that is within your power to keep Bush out of Washington? Think about what you are saying and doing to yourself! Chill out a bit, relax, pull back and realize that whatever you do, you cannot control the results, so there is absolutely no reason to get yourself sick over it.
I sincerely mean it. Don't get yourself sick over this.


Don Cardi [/QB][/quote]Who do you think you are? A Doctor?? :p

I'm just a concerned citizen, trying to do my part in righting what I see wrong. But I will try to relax. Thanks.

Doc

[/QB][/QUOTE]Who do you think you are? A Doctor?? :p

I'm just a concerned citizen, trying to do my part in righting what I see wrong. But I will try to relax. Thanks.

Doc [/QB][/QUOTE]

Hmmmm. DOC Cardi!!! Flows pretty smoothly!

Nah, just don't want to see you upset yourself any longer.


Don Cardi

Don Ferro my friend,

I share your anger, grief, disgust, and your disillusionment with how "the other half" just doesn't see.

Not to lessen the importance of any of the other issues on the election ballot, of course the President was most important in my mind, because of, and mainly of the Iraq war.

I hate to see many of us who are (were?) friends, start in with name calling, insults and down right rudeness to others who do not share their views. If we were all to meet tomorrow, would the shit hit the fan over politics??

I won't go into reasons that have been hashed out over and over and over again, but perhaps to those who don't see how the "left" can feel the way they do, let me try to explain without political banter, but more on an emotional level, and maybe, whether you agree or disagree, or even understand, you might be able to see and say.."Ah, I don't agree, but understand where her/his anger/fear/discontent comes from.

This is my feeling:

This President scares me like no other President in my lifetime. I don't trust him. I don't feel safe with him. I fear for the future of my daughters, my grandaughters and myself because I see an even larger and more devasting war/s in the future. I would love nothing more than to be proven wrong. But until then I can only say my sentiment is, and probably said and felt more sincerely and honestly from the core of my being......God Bless America!!

TIS

Gee Tis, Ever since I started to read this board you always seem to be doing just fine, fun cheerful, no worries and a mother to all the young people who post here. You mean to tell me within the last month or so you now "don't feel safe with him" and am now blue over Bush. It sure never showed by any of your 7000 posts?
I am sure that after all your years, thru all these other times and presidents that you made it thru just fine that you will again be fine thru this next four years and many more to come.

FS,

You don't know, because I don't say. I tend to, normally anyway, keep my worries to myself, and must admit that, until this war, I was fortunate enough not to have any of any great significance. And no, it is NOT within the last month that I've had these feelings. I just have not posted them. Yes, I try to be optimistic, and usually am to be honest, just not in this case.

Keep in mind too, that even with Viet Nam, there was fear/anger, but you must admit that the threat of any war on our soil, brings up the fear level significantly. Yes, we will go on and do our best and hope for the best for America and the entire world.

Now tell me a good joke. I can use a good laugh. :p

TIS

You know, this is why tigers eat their young.

I tell you, this is sorry. I mean, it's laughable. Congrats to the most hilarious set of posts I've seen in my years in posting on internet message boards.

I've seen people who claim to be related to Palestinian terrorists, people who send "cool games" to others which are actually poorly crafted viruses, massive personality disorders and, in general, a rather differentiating balance in intelligence and the attitudes taken towards ones posts.

Since people like Baggins, RB, Don Cardi, et al, have all taken the time in the past to debate with you, I must admit it's been quite fun. And I'd love to do it again. Just...not with DonFerro55, or in most cases, Patrick. And this is only relegated to political threads, not anything else.

Give me Don Marco. Give me Plawrence. Give me Saladbar, I'd be happy. Heck, Afsanah and I had a very interesting discussion on the status of the UN not long ago, and it was quite exciting.

But the downward spiral I have seen in these political threads is positively farcical. No longer are their any real thoughtful posts; and depressing as it may be, it makes me long all the more for a proper "ignore" function that blocks peoples posts. :p

Anyways, I would just like to express my feelings on this. Nothing personal against Pat, DonFerro, or the bevy of other would be politicos that come and go.

It's grown rather tiresome.

Your opinions, quite frankly, are not that of the majority, which is fine. But I find it funny that, and this goes for DonFerro especially, that you actually seem to be to the point of anti-American because of this election. Never before has their been a sorrier case of sour grapes on any message board I visit until now.

You're "candidate," regardless of whether he was the "lesser of two evils," or he was the liberal savior, or whatever concoction from which you derive his promise, lost. The American people, the "59,054,087 dumb people" according to you, are the majority. The majority. Not the minority.

I have no problem with disagreements. Without it, our government would be reduced to a federalist monarchy.

However, for all the mentioning of "uniting" our divided nation, I see little effort on the side of the left, if you two are any indication. And I don't care about how you personally feel about Michael Moore. In the grand scheme of things, he is quite inconsequential. His film clearly did not do what it was meant to: curb peoples support for President Bush.

I don't see what would make you happy, short of some kind of coup or political uprising (I suspect you would find happiness in 1789 France or Bolshevik Russia). You have every right, as a citizen, to disagree with the government and it's stance on issues.

I'm not conceding, as your candidate in. I'm just expressing my opinion, as you feel the need to. No insults. And I suspect that more than one of my fellow BB cohorts will agree with me.

We don't care if you disagree.

But your idealism has reduced you, at least from what I can see (and what others I have spoken to) to the point redundance. Your blind support for some ideologically perfect left, and generally unwilling look towards compromise not only shows how unreasonable people are today, but how we, as a society and generation, have truly degraded to the point of being elitist prats who forget the values and virtues for which our forefathers gave their lives for.

I get it. It's rather silly, but I get it. The republicans control the government because that is what the American people voted for. We had 8 years of democracy under Clinton. We only need look back at Jimmy Carter to see another example of democratic control.

It's not like the American people, as a populus, are genrally blind, stupid, or ignorant. For every DonFerro neoliberal, there is a DonFerro neoconservative.

Without any effort from the left, there will be no compromise, and in turn, will only continue the deterioration of our union. I suppose I could relate it to secession in the mid-to-late 19th century, but we are clearly not arguing over states rights or slavery.

We are talking about beliefs which are not what the majority wants. And you can believe what you want, that's perfectly fine. But just remember - regardless of how much you piss and moan, you're still equal to the rest of us. And you are on the side of the minority.

Feel free to engage in political discussions. Just understand where you stand.

Cheers,
Double-J

TIS,

Wow, Thank you

That's pretty much all I can say.

I may be "young and wreakless", but I too worry about my future and the future for my children.

Thanks for putting it so....awesomely.(for a lack of a better term)


Thanks again,

Doctor Ferro

JJ,

I mean all of what I am about to say seriously.

You may think us Liberals(or just me) are a joke to the sanctity of BB Boards everywhere.

You may think I am the most extreme liberal on the board.

You may think I am ignorant or silly.(among the many things you have called me)

You may think I am destructive twoards our current focus of reuniting the counrty.

But the bottom line is just that.
Bush is not re-uniting the country. What you fail to realize is that, though the majority voted for Bush, the majority does not like the current direction we are headed. Statistics prove this. Why Bush was re-elected? I honestly think that is fucked up.(Hence the 59,000,000 dumb people) Democrats did not just want knew leadership, we HATED the old leadership. Big difference. Bush wins and we are told to get over it and play fetch. Well, not this dog. You may say I'm anti-American(and I must say, I truely have never felt more un-American in my life)(Mind you, un-American is not Anti-American)

You can not tell me I am unworthy of debate. I am more than worthy of debate and so is anyone else. If you choose not to respond to my posts, then fine.

You may have nothing personal with me JJ, but more and more I have bad feelings about you and others on this board for all the reasons TIS so ingeniously stated.

My Bottom Line Remains Extremely Clear
I do not agree with this President at all. I do not agree with his actions. I do not agree with how, I FEEL, he is misleading the country. I fear for the citizens of the United States, including myself. I will do everything I can to keep, what I feel, as the Republican Brainwashing Machine at bay.

In Retrospect: I Will Not Go Away!

I want a better America and I will fight for it. Bottom Line.

In my opinion, Dubya, you're days are numbered until justice prevails.(as he so eliquently put it in his 9/11 address)

Doctor Ferro

P.S. Think I'm debate worthy enough to respond? Or am I not worth your time?