The scope of the influence in central Mexico, Iran and Lebanon is staggering. As I posted before since 1990 the Outfit no longer compares to any of the families in New York as their influence has been greatly diminished, however in their glory day they were more diverse than GE

If you believe Russo's book, and it's pretty well sourced, it's hard to believe that any other family was as powerful as Chicao at its peak. We've had this discussion on here before. They dominated the city with corruption; you are talking about dozens upon dozens if not hundres of corrupt cops, there was at least one Alderman who was a made member of the Outfit and far more than that who were their patsies, there were countless politicians in their pocket. They controlled an absurd number of unions and their tentacles stretched to arguably dominate Vegas, Hollywood, the jukebox industry as well as, as pointed out above, a fair amount of international ventures in other countries.

It's also hard not to believe that they were at some level involved in the election of Kennedy and collaborated wth the CIA on things like the Bay of Pigs and asassination attempts on Castro.

This is not even mentioning the army of, what, thousands or tens of thousands under Capone? (It was probably a numberically superior but not as viciously subervsive a mob.)

It's not really bragging rights; Chicago's corruption is somewhat embarrassing. But it makes sense that it was easier than in other places, as it was pretty much a Wild West town in the early part of the 20th century.

This is almost like a P4P boxing debate; you'll never get a srtraight answer but in terms of scope of power I'm yet to hear a convincing argument that any organization rivaled the Outfit under Ricca/Arcaddo/Giancana/Humphries.

Obviously when it comes to today, I am probably one of those posters who would peg it as being borderline defunct.

I'd argue guys like Frank Costello and Tommy Lucchese had as much political clout as anyone in Chicago ever did. New Jersey has always been just as corrupt as Illinois, and the Genovese family were the main benefactors there. People also forget that up through much of the 1960's, police corruption was widespread in NYC, with many departments on the pad.

Before the families outside the Midwest started selling their interests in the Las Vegas casinos, the Genovese family's presence there was second only to Chicago. They also had interests in Havana before Castro, as well as in Florida and Louisiana. But the casinos in any place were never the routine moneymakers that numbers and sports betting were; and nobody was bigger in those rackets than the Genovese.

I'd argue the Genovese family has always been the most powerful and diversified in terms of labor unions and legitimate industries. The ILA, the Teamsters, the Carpenters, the Mason Tenders, Fulton Fish Market, Javits Center, garbage hauling throughout the tri-state area, trucking, construction, the entertainment business, vending, the garment center, Times Square adult businesses, restaurants and nightclubs, food wholesaling, etc.

Lastly, the Genovese family had the advantage of operating from the mob's "ground zero" - New York - and represented several of the families east of Chicago on the Commission. And the east coast was always more important than anything out west.

I'd argue guys like Frank Costello and Tommy Lucchese had as much political clout as anyone in Chicago ever did. New Jersey has always been just as corrupt as Illinois, and the Genovese family were the main benefactors there. People also forget that up through much of the 1960's, police corruption was widespread in NYC, with many departments on the pad.

Before the families outside the Midwest started selling their interests in the Las Vegas casinos, the Genovese family's presence there was second only to Chicago. They also had interests in Havana before Castro, as well as in Florida and Louisiana. But the casinos in any place were never the routine moneymakers that numbers and sports betting were; and nobody was bigger in those rackets than the Genovese.

I'd argue the Genovese family has always been the most powerful and diversified in terms of labor unions and legitimate industries. The ILA, the Teamsters, the Carpenters, the Mason Tenders, Fulton Fish Market, Javits Center, garbage hauling throughout the tri-state area, trucking, construction, the entertainment business, vending, the garment center, Times Square adult businesses, restaurants and nightclubs, food wholesaling, etc.

Lastly, the Genovese family had the advantage of operating from the mob's "ground zero" - New York - and represented several of the families east of Chicago on the Commission. And the east coast was always more important than anything out west.

[quote=jonnynonos]If you believe Russo's book, and it's pretty well sourced, it's hard to believe that any other family was as powerful as Chicao at its peak. We've had this discussion on here before. They dominated the city with corruption; you are talking about dozens upon dozens if not hundres of corrupt cops, there was at least one Alderman who was a made member of the Outfit and far more than that who were their patsies, there were countless politicians in their pocket. They controlled an absurd number of unions and their tentacles stretched to arguably dominate Vegas, Hollywood, the jukebox industry as well as, as pointed out above, a fair amount of international ventures in other countries.

It's also hard not to believe that they were at some level involved in the election of Kennedy and collaborated wth the CIA on things like the Bay of Pigs and asassination attempts on Castro.

This is not even mentioning the army of, what, thousands or tens of thousands under Capone? (It was probably a numberically superior but not as viciously subervsive a mob.)

It's not really bragging rights; Chicago's corruption is somewhat embarrassing. But it makes sense that it was easier than in other places, as it was pretty much a Wild West town in the early part of the 20th century.

This is almost like a P4P boxing debate; you'll never get a srtraight answer but in terms of scope of power I'm yet to hear a convincing argument that any organization rivaled the Outfit under Ricca/Arcaddo/Giancana/Humphries.

Obviously when it comes to today, I am probably one of those posters who would peg it as being borderline defunct.

I'd argue guys like Frank Costello and Tommy Lucchese had as much political clout as anyone in Chicago ever did. New Jersey has always been just as corrupt as Illinois, and the Genovese family were the main benefactors there. People also forget that up through much of the 1960's, police corruption was widespread in NYC, with many departments on the pad.

Before the families outside the Midwest started selling their interests in the Las Vegas casinos, the Genovese family's presence there was second only to Chicago. They also had interests in Havana before Castro, as well as in Florida and Louisiana. But the casinos in any place were never the routine moneymakers that numbers and sports betting were; and nobody was bigger in those rackets than the Genovese.

I'd argue the Genovese family has always been the most powerful and diversified in terms of labor unions and legitimate industries. The ILA, the Teamsters, the Carpenters, the Mason Tenders, Fulton Fish Market, Javits Center, garbage hauling throughout the tri-state area, trucking, construction, the entertainment business, vending, the garment center, Times Square adult businesses, restaurants and nightclubs, food wholesaling, etc.

Lastly, the Genovese family had the advantage of operating from the mob's "ground zero" - New York - and represented several of the families east of Chicago on the Commission. And the east coast was always more important than anything out west.

[/quote


the Chicago syndicate is responsible for the most scandalous schemes of any family

Hollywood, wire services, kennedy, castro, las vegas, etc

comparing Chicago's mob against NY's combined mobs ain't practical

there is too much crooked money to be made in Chicago for the outfit to have no clout

the Chicago syndicate is responsible for the most scandalous schemes of any family

Hollywood, wire services, kennedy, castro, las vegas, etc

comparing Chicago's mob against NY's combined mobs ain't practical

there is too much crooked money to be made in Chicago for the outfit to have no clout

The most scandalous schemes? Whatever that means. The Outfit did extort Hollywood studios a long time ago. Kennedy and Castro are a stretch. If we want to get technical, Bugsy was responsible for Vegas and later mob families got involved.



When did I ever compare the Outfit to all 5 NY families? But if we're comparing the Outfit to the Genovese family, the Genovese operating from ground zero, in mob terms, as well as representing more important families in the east, is something to consider.



Nobody said they have "no clout." What I've been stressing for years now is the outdated notion that the Outfit continues to have a monolithic, all encompassing hold on Chicago; where nearly all crime and corruption revolve around it. The Outfit's clout, in any form you want to look at, is a tiny fraction of what it was years ago. But some people can't seem to make that leap to the 21st century, but choose to stay in the 1970's if not earlier.

@ivyleague

you know what the fuck a scandal is

kinda like when one of your neighbors get pinched for marrying six year olds

@ivyleague

you know what the fuck a scandal is

kinda like when one of your neighbors get pinched for marrying six year olds

Oh Christ, not this thread again.

My thoughts exactly. This can only bring out the stupid.

I really tickle myself sometimes.

All you east coast flunkies do...what is it you call yourselves - metrosexuals? You care more about your clothes and hair than women. That's not right.

Where the fuck did that come from?

I WAS one of the only people on this site that you hadn't alienated.

You wont ever find me getting sensitive with all the east coasters smacking down ChiTown...I just smack back harder

And that's just the thing. I NEVER smack down ChiTown. Not once in my eight years here. I don't get involved in that regional rivalry crap. Because you know what?

Sports are one thing. Even pride in local food and restaurants is understandable. But anyone who takes regional pride in his local criminals is sick in the fucking head. I repeat that. Sick in the fucking head .

The Chicago Mafias prime was during the Paul Ricca/Mooney Giancana era, 50s & 60s. Not during prohibition. You couldn't even call it the Outfit back then, it was a big free for all.

Okay.

My old balls are a little twisted today anyway because I'm waiting for a FedEx all day and I don't want to miss it. But I have things to do.

You know how frustrating that can be .