Wondering what other folks opinions are on this. As bad as some of these black hearted guys are I find my self rooting for them to not get caught and when they are finally brought to justice for them to beat the charges and all the while finding what they do to the lives others, especially their families, despicable. I guess part of it is that I'm not fond of the tactics used by law enforcement and the hypocrisy by the government which I find to be very corrupt in its own way. I have to say when these guys beat the FBI/Courts it makes my day. Say what you will about these guys but many of them have a ton of courage,too bad it is so misguided.

Ivyleague would call you a fanboy

Talking NY for example I do admire the way they've adapted to survive in an era where they're hounded by law enforcement and plagued with rats.

It's an intriguing game of cat and mouse to view from afar.

Dellacroce,

I remember when Gotti got off the first time. My Father was ecstatic, he broke out the vino, lit up a cigar and said "that a boy John".

sbhc,

Great point, they continue to adapt and evolve.

Tell that to the next junkie piece of shit who walks into your cozy Boca office and tell him that you're rooting for the "black hearted guys" who sold him his dope. How do you reconcile that with what you do for a living?

Now I don't give a fuck. Some of them are okay, some of them are lowlife, bottom feeding douche bags. But if I find myself rooting for a guy to beat a case, I'm probably doing it from for a specific reason. Furthermore, I'm probably doing it from across the street from my house. Not from behind a newspaper report or a computer.


You hit it on the head. It's very easy. From afar .

I never for the life of me will understand the cult of personality of guys like John Gotti and the Stockholm syndrome surrounding people not in that life.

Thousands of people rioting when he was found guilty; middle aged housewives holding up placards in support of him. WTF is all that about?

Something that struck me about those middle aged housewives is that they are the same kind of people that were on TV lambasting "evil" Sammy Gravano after he flipped; the sisters and wives of his victims.

You can not have your cake and eat it too. You can not support what people like John Gotti do and then go on TV and pick on the "rat".

A murderer is a murderer. I don't feel an ounce of pity for these people. Their brothers, sons and husbands were no angels either; selling drugs and corrupting Italian American youth.

Reminds me also of Henry Hill's retort when one of Spider's loved ones phoned in the Howard Stern show.

Your little angel, Spider, hung around with murderers on his own volition. WTF did you/he think would happen associating with these people?

YOU REAP WHAT YOU SOW! There is not enough culpability with people anymore.

PB,

Not sure why you decided to attack me personally for posting my views, and at this point I don't care. You seem like a knowledgeable and decent guy, not sure why you find it necessary to try and verbally beat down a nobody like me. Anyway I enjoy your insightful posts.

I like rooting for the bad guy.

I like breaking bad wanted him to retire with his 80 million and live happy ever after.

Well the cancer came back at least he killed the guys that stole 70 million from him.

They deserved to die for giving him 10 million they did not have to give him. If that was going to happen they should have killed him as well, and kep it all.

Other people who root for the bad guy are guys who follow the laws, and would never do anything illegal. Except cheat on their taxes.

I apologize, NN78. It was out of character for me and I sent you a pm .

I am with my wife 2 days ago driving around in a van I own. She see's a lawn ornament on someone lawn it was a big seal I forget it's right name. She thought is was cute. I stop take it put it in the van. It's in my back yard now.

Last time I saw a doowop concert before the dion. I was with some of my old fart friends from Harlem. We go to eat in a restraunt about 15 blocks from the beacon theather. When I get out I saw a big park bench in front of the place where people can sit on. I decide it would look good in my back yard. I told the people sitting on it to get up. We have to repair it. Now it's mine. My friends laughed as they helped me put it in my van.

That's funny just don't go in anyone's house

Thanks PB

It depends on what they're buissness is, why they were arrested and where they're from. I would root for a NY gangster on trial for gambling. Not some degenerate drug dealer from California

Paddy,

Welcome to the boards and thank you for the post. I tend to do the same thing. I forget sometimes that both of these crimes have basically the same effects and outcomes on peoples lives. The degenerate gambler winds up just like the drug addict, broke, in jail, and in the cemetery way before their time.

Paddy,

Welcome to the boards and thank you for the post. I tend to do the same thing. I forget sometimes that both of these crimes have basically the same effects and outcomes on peoples lives. The degenerate gambler winds up just like the drug addict, broke, in jail, and in the cemetery way before their time.[/quote]


It just seems that other buisnesses are less harmful than others. Like extortion and gambling is one thing but prostituion and drug dealing is another. They generally do lead to the same thing where the victim does become a degenerate alchoholic/druggie, broke, in jail or all of the above. All theses types of buisnesses are harmful. Just some are more direct to the end result. Thanks for shedding light on the end result of both buissnesses

I'm the same way, my thoughts exactly. Why I feel that way, I don't know. But I know this because I grew up and played ball all my life and most of my friends were kids from the streets, ghetto whatever you call it where your from. I wasn't in no way rich, wealthy or spoiled.....I happen to be lucky enough to have a maybe slightly below middle class upbringing with lots of love, not a lot of money or material things but my dad was always there for me. So I was lucky in that way. But a lot my friends, man they had nothing to go home to. I remember my dad and me would go get pick up my friends for practice and games and I'll never forget one day after a game we dropped off a friend of mine at his house in the hood and his dad was out front drinking with his friends and my dad hollered at him and said, "your boy played great, you should be proud of him". And his reply back was, "y'all can take him with u if you want, he ain't nuttin but bad news". Now some of that maybe was tongue in cheek but I mean his son was playing five miles away and he didn't give a shit.

So the reason I root for the bad guys is I truly believe that when your situation is shitty and you don't have anyone that cares about you it's almost essential to find someone you can run with, someone that has your back and a lot of these kids did what thy had to do to survive. Most of those friends of mine now are locked up or just got out and that's just the way it is. Some say it's no excuse, if you want to make it out you will....but I've never heard anyone say that that wasn't already out and happen to get lucky and somehow made it. So it's easy to sit back and say that when you already made it.

I'm a firm believer in you're a product of your environment. That's it unless you're a star athlete no one cares about those kids in hood. Easier said than done!!

So I root for those guys because they made something out of nothing, legal or illegal, who the fuck cares. You think these State Boys aren't doin something shady, or these FBI agents?? These politicians are crooked as hell. The governor before the current one in my state got in all sorts of trouble for his crooked shit. But somehow he's still rich and never did a day in prison.

Yes, There are good ones but there's more bad ones and if someone can get over on this hypocrisy then I say "good for them".

I'm a firm believer in you're a product of your environment. That's it unless you're a star athlete no one cares about those kids in hood. Easier said than done!!

To be fair most people from the hood, myself included, are not drug dealers, pimps, armed robbers, fraudsters, etc. Most of them work or want to work. It's a relative few that commit crimes or abuse welfare. I don't think the argument that where you are from means your doomed holds water. Me and my family and friends prove that wrong everyday.

As for rooting for the bad guys, the K&A gang, Pagans/Warlocks, and later the Latin Kings and their like RUINED my neighborhood. HELPED turn it into a dangerous slum and made it worse for everyone. When people think of Kensington and people from Kensington that's what they think of. I'm not proud of that and wouldn't root for people who make that so.

I love history and read about people like the Nazis and Red Army and other people I can't stand just like o.c. But I think it's more glamorous from afar from the safety of your computer or once you've left the neighborhood. Personally I can't do that.

PS, don't like cops either! Most of the K&A gang and Pagans had cop brothers or fathers who helped them thrive.

Lol true. I once said the Jews send their boys to school, the Italians send their boys to the streets, and the Irish send half their boys to the streets, and the other half to law enforcement XD. It is corrupted but brothers help brothers, even if your brother is a murder.


Also, " I don't wanna be a product of my enviorment, I want my enviorment to be a product of me" Frank Costello

If they only stuck with the gambling/trafficking/loan sharking stuff I think I would root for them. But I've heard too many stories of them strongarming civilians to root for them now. I have friends who got shaken down for their businesses without ever taking a loan or asking help from them, and one guy who had to sell his property at half price under threat of death. These guys are filth for the most part. There is no honor. Turn off the TV and look in the real world. There is nothing good about most of them

Footreads,

Great show,as bad as Walter was there was another side to him that I couldn't help but root for.

I will say that when the government continued to pursue Gotti Jr. in the early 2000s I was very much rooting for him.I am sure that he has had many killed.And that he ordered the attempted hit on Curtis Sliwa back in the 90's.I just found myself wanting him to beat it.I also found myself pulling for Joe Ligambi and company during his latest trials.I believe there are probally many wanting to see Nicodemo beat his murder rap.If he beats that case he will be a mafia legend.Maybe it is due to how the government conducts itself and how they will let a guy who killed 19 people go if he betrays his mafia family and testifies against them.So yes,sometimes I personally have wanted the wiseguys to win in court

This was my inviorment. We were poor but did not even know we were poor because everyone was poor. Except for the wise guys, but as young kids they wanted nothing to do with us.

The kids were all on the street all day long. With a lot of times on their hands no one played organized sports. It was all street sports.

All the kids were hit by their parents at home. Some worse then others I was getting my head bang against the kitchen wall as a five year old by Daddio. He was just trying to make me good. It did not work.

You can get used to anything including getting hit with a closed fist every day by your father figure. I guy for what ever reason hated your guts. God I miss those beating by Daddio

He also hit my brother and my mother. Loved to burn her with cigs. A great husband.

Mom could really cook. But could not do much else could not even kill that fuck in his sleep to save herself and her kids.

So you get Used to getting hit and hitting people. I must have had a fight a day. With all that fighting you get pretty good at it. Helps to get eople to actually listen what you said to them..

Funny as bad as it was I thought my neighborhood was the greatest. In later years I remember it as disney land even now. But now it actually might be?

Memphis,

Thanks for the post. I agree, it's kind of hard to root for the government when they make deals with guys like Gravano. It appears that Gotti Jr has walked away from that life...

My son my youngest the Brazilian jujitsu guy hung out with Gotti jr. I tried to put a stop to that. I told my son he was too stupid to last with him. Some times you have to brutal honest with people to try and help them. Now he teachs the art and is happy. Going ot with a female doctor that he help train in the school. The teachers and students are a very good class of people.

You see, in life there is the good and bad side. Everything is between a line that makes it equal. I call it the life path and more or less natural survival.
You live your life and some things happen. For somebody it's his girlfriend that cheated on him, someone else gets blamed on a crime that he didn't do and barely beats the charges or maybe doesn't beat them. It's the things that happen in your life and your task is to learn from them. Like nothing happens without a reason - either you deserved the thing to happen to you or it happened for you to learn and become stronger!

LIFE IS DIFFERENT FOR EVERYONE!

When was the last time that you saw a mobster/street gangster or any other criminal to grow up in a good situated family, which never had any financial problems and major problems inside the family(such as abusive drinker dad for example)?

I don't justify crimes such as murder without a reason or with little reason, neither do I justify pedo's and rapists. These groups should be brought to justice and not by the judge. But I know that no-one who is good situated will never turn to crime.

There is one or more reasons why people have chosen the path of crime. And just blindly shouting "Criminals are scum", I think these people are ignorant, thinking everyone has the same life as they did.

In today's world your best path is rooting for your family I.E. Wife, kids and grand kids. There are so many dynamics and reasons why things have changed to answer here. However if you think these guys would root for one of us if we had a family illness or couldn't pay the mortgage your dilusional.

Just an observation: the opposition between mafia vs government, that the government can be as bad as the mafia, is possible only for the Italian-American mafia. In Italy, for example, the government itself IS the mafia, at least partially, the mafia isn't really "opposite" to the state, they are rooted into each other very deeply with no visible border between them, otherwise it wouldn't be mafia but just street thugs.

It would be interesting to know whether in America they have made members among politicians, not just ones on the payroll.

As for rooting for bad guys, I agree with this only in cases when they kill a murderer of their friends or relatives, when the police doesn't want to help.

MemphisMafia, if Nicodemo beats the case, he won't flip and we will never know the last interesting peace of mafia history in Philly that he is able to provide. So I think it's better if he gets convicted, so there is a strong reason for him to talk.

No offense, PolakVet. But you only believe that because you already live in a very poor country. Here in America, people born to money turn to crime every so often, too. It's a fact of life. And I'm not even talking about the mafia (which is much different here than in Europe anyway). How else do you explain the corporate raiders and stock swindlers who were born to suburban middle class parents?


Agreed.


Again, it's on an individual basis. You can't make a blanket statement like that about spoiled American criminals without having met them. I knew plenty of kids who were given love and had their basic needs fulfilled (food, shelter, etc.) who turned to crime anyway (and again, I'm not just talking about the mafia, I'm talking about white collar types as well).

Now I agree that it doesn't happen as much with people born to money, but it does happen.Things are just a little different here, Polak. It's never enough for some Americans. Greed is often the motivating factor in America. Not just necessity .

I was speaking about normal people, Pizzaboy. Of course you see these idiots growing up in rich families and starting to act gangster and also the greedy white collar guys. I don't feel any sympathy for such people. As they aren't any better as a guy who murders someone in a robbery for a wallet with twenty bucks in it. I call it crime without a real reason.
We got such kids also here, know one kid who's younger than me. His parents aren't associated with any criminals, neither is he. He drives a latest model S600 Mercedes and coming out of his car ar songs about criminal life, altough I'm 100% sure the car he drives was bought by his parents, and the nearest thing he may had to do with criminals was getting robbed or extorted for his lunch money in school.

"How else do you explain the corporate raiders and stock swindlers who were born to suburban middle class parents?"

It doesn't have to be just white collar crime though. I remember reading that Carmine Persico's family was actually pretty well off and middle class while most others were anything but.