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Re: Crime & Justice
[Re: olivant]
#786608
06/30/14 03:23 PM
06/30/14 03:23 PM
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Joined: Apr 2006
Posts: 11,797 Pennsylvania
klydon1
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Joined: Apr 2006
Posts: 11,797
Pennsylvania
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Another thing to keep in mind on the Hobby Lobby case is that Hobby Lobby did not challenge the entire list of 20 forms of contraception contained in the mandate, but they opposed only four, which include morning after pills and IUDs, which they equated with abortion though you could argue this. The suit did not express opposition to birth control pills, condoms, sponges, etc. The narrow request for relief increased the likelihood of success before the Court.
Moreover the accommodation that was allowed for those, employed by the exempt religious institutions, will likely be made available to those employees, who are affected by the decision.
The big losers are the Jehovah's Witnesses, who weren't part of the deal, but dicta in the decision let them know they were cut out of the victory.
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Re: Crime & Justice
[Re: klydon1]
#787055
07/03/14 05:34 PM
07/03/14 05:34 PM
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Joined: Oct 2001
Posts: 19,694 AZ
Turnbull
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Joined: Oct 2001
Posts: 19,694
AZ
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The Supreme Court is political, and swims in the same political waters as Congress and, by extension, the rest of America. Roberts crafted a political compromise in Hobby Lobby: By making a (IMO) dubious distinction between a "privately held" corporation and those that are publicly held, he managed to satisfy the religious Right without giving the rest of corporate America carte blanche to pick and choose which aspects of Obamacare they'll implement.
It's dubious because Hobby Lobby is still a big corporation that operates stores in many states and does business on an interstate basis. The fact that Hobby Lobby is privately held doesn't make a difference to employees receiving salary, benefits or any other aspect of employment. Nor can Hobby Lobby require employees to sign affidavits that they support the owning family's religious beliefs and precepts as a condition of employment.
Ironically, Roberts cited the "commerce" clause in upholding Obamacare--another dubious way to achieve a political compromise.
Ntra la porta tua lu sangu � sparsu, E nun me mporta si ce muoru accisu... E s'iddu muoru e vaju mparadisu Si nun ce truovo a ttia, mancu ce trasu.
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Re: Crime & Justice
[Re: Turnbull]
#787296
07/05/14 06:01 AM
07/05/14 06:01 AM
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Joined: Feb 2013
Posts: 722 Midwest
LittleNicky
Underboss
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Underboss
Joined: Feb 2013
Posts: 722
Midwest
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The Supreme Court is political, and swims in the same political waters as Congress and, by extension, the rest of America. Roberts crafted a political compromise in Hobby Lobby: By making a (IMO) dubious distinction between a "privately held" corporation and those that are publicly held, he managed to satisfy the religious Right without giving the rest of corporate America carte blanche to pick and choose which aspects of Obamacare they'll implement.
It's dubious because Hobby Lobby is still a big corporation that operates stores in many states and does business on an interstate basis. The fact that Hobby Lobby is privately held doesn't make a difference to employees receiving salary, benefits or any other aspect of employment. Nor can Hobby Lobby require employees to sign affidavits that they support the owning family's religious beliefs and precepts as a condition of employment.
Ironically, Roberts cited the "commerce" clause in upholding Obamacare--another dubious way to achieve a political compromise. Oh yes, it was such a nutty solution that 7 out of the 9 justices agreed that just because someone operates a business doesn't immediately mean the state can take away all of their rights. Only the two nuttiest justices expressed an opinion otherwise (Ginsburg and Sotomayor). Kagan and Breyer expressly didn't state that proposition. The RFRA compelled this outcome. The Court is not a superlegislator, it does not weigh policies. If you really thought the grandiose, intentionally overbroad HHS reg was going to pass strict scrutiny, you were delusional. There isn't a single person in the universe that thought that was the "least restrictive" means to completing their goal without interfering with religious rights. If you don't like this outcome, repeal RFRA (the product of Clinton and a democrat congress). But until you do, all this policy stuff, the whiny "what does their 401k invest in" garbage is weak, simple minded and extremely childish. Guess what guys? People have different beliefs than you. Even if you think they are stupid. They should be able to associate, employ and service who they want under these principles. You can go ahead and not like, attend or support Wheaton college or Hobby Lobby. Both you and the religious busineses can make arguments in civil society about the merits of your respective positions. Maybe you can convince them how stupid they are. That's called pluralism, diversity. At least before prog idiots like those posting above decide they can use the violence of the state to enact ends that they see as morally righteous. At least HL isn't asking to use that violence to force others to comply with their beliefs. The Progs in this scenario sound far more like the purtians to me.
Should probably ask Mr. Kierney. I guess if you're Italian, you should be in prison. I've read the RICO Act, and I can tell you it's more appropriate... for some of those guys over in Washington than it is for me or any of my fellas here
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Re: Crime & Justice
[Re: olivant]
#788003
07/09/14 03:37 AM
07/09/14 03:37 AM
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Joined: Jan 2008
Posts: 5,325 MI
Lilo
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Joined: Jan 2008
Posts: 5,325
MI
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In his opinion, Breyer offers the most forceful defense of what’s often termed “living constitutionalism” to appear in a majority Supreme Court opinion in a generation. Rejecting Antonin Scalia’s 18th-century approach of originalism—in which all that matters is what the framers thought—Breyer in Noel Canning stakes a bold claim for interpreting the Constitution “in light of its text, purposes, and our whole experience.” His is a progressive vision of the Constitution, one articulated previously in his books, like Active Liberty, and in various concurring and dissenting opinions he has authored over the years. But now, in the wake of Canning it is also the opinion of the court. As a result, it will influence how future courts—state and federal, trial and appellate—will apply the Constitution to answer tomorrow’s controversies.
It may seem like a niggling academic problem. But it has real-world consequences. That’s one of the reasons Justice Antonin Scalia—who agreed with Breyer that these recess appointments were unconstitutional—nevertheless disagreed with the court’s opinion so vigorously. While it may be a sign of how far the Roberts court has shifted that Scalia is forced to file his blustery dissents in the form of angry concurrences, the substance of Scalia’s complaint is unchanged: The court “casts aside the plain, original meaning of the constitutional text.” Breyer responds by saying that Scalia’s originalism asks the wrong question. “The question is not: Did the Founders at the time think about” the exact issue before the court? “The question is: Did the Founders intend to restrict the scope” of the Constitution only to the “forms ... then prevalent,” or did they intend the Constitution “to apply, where appropriate, to somewhat changed circumstances”? Fidelity to the Constitution, he suggests, means using its timeless principles to address new and unforeseen situations. You know, like figuring out how to preserve privacy in an age of smartphones—as the court did this term in Riley v. California, another case decided without relying on originalism... Justice Breyer in Canning Decision
"When the snows fall and the white winds blow, the lone wolf dies but the pack survives." Winter is Coming
Now this is the Law of the Jungle—as old and as true as the sky; And the wolf that shall keep it may prosper, but the wolf that shall break it must die. As the creeper that girdles the tree-trunk, the Law runneth forward and back; For the strength of the Pack is the Wolf, and the strength of the Wolf is the Pack.
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Re: Crime & Justice
[Re: olivant]
#788884
07/13/14 10:04 AM
07/13/14 10:04 AM
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Joined: Feb 2003
Posts: 15,030 Texas
olivant
OP
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OP

Joined: Feb 2003
Posts: 15,030
Texas
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NASHVILLE, Tenn. (AP) — Deep in the nation's Bible Belt, new signs emerged this weekend of an evolution among Republican governors on gay marriage, an explosive social issue that has divided America's families and politics for years.
While the Republican Party's religious conservatives continue to fight against same-sex marriage, its governors appear to be backing off their opposition— in their rhetoric, at least. For some, the shift may be more a matter of tone than substance as the GOP tries to attract new voters ahead of the midterm elections. Nonetheless, it is dramatic turn for a party that has long been defined by social conservative values.
"I don't think the Republican Party is fighting it," Wisconsin's Republican Gov. Scott Walker said of gay marriage. He spoke with The Associated Press during an interview this weekend at the National Governors Association in Nashville.
"Generosity. That was my first mistake." "Experience must be our only guide; reason may mislead us." "Instagram is Twitter for people who can't read."
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Re: Crime & Justice
[Re: olivant]
#789099
07/14/14 11:06 AM
07/14/14 11:06 AM
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Joined: Dec 2006
Posts: 23,296 Throggs Neck
pizzaboy
The Fuckin Doctor
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The Fuckin Doctor

Joined: Dec 2006
Posts: 23,296
Throggs Neck
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They're everywhere! They're everywhere!""In April, Crystal Moore was fired in what she said was a decision driven by homophobia. Now the town of Latta, South Carolina, has voted to alter the structure of its government and hire her back as police chief, in the process weakening the powers of the mayor who put her on the chopping block." http://news.yahoo.com/southern-town-lesbian-sheriff-003000842--politics.html Well, let's not get carried away, Oli. And I'm not even familiar with the case. But people should be hired based on their ability. Period. Because you know what happens next, right? Quotas for openly gay people. And that opens the door to people lying about their orientation on job applications to increase their chances. Let them live their lives and go about their business. I'm all for that, and I've always supported their rights on this board. But we don't need anymore "victim" groups that benefit from Affirmative Action, especially if they're going to lie about it. And for the record, I've always been in favor of it to a certain degree  .
"I got news for you. If it wasn't for the toilet, there would be no books." --- George Costanza.
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Re: Crime & Justice
[Re: pizzaboy]
#789152
07/14/14 02:59 PM
07/14/14 02:59 PM
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Joined: Feb 2013
Posts: 2,213
cookcounty
Underboss
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Underboss
Joined: Feb 2013
Posts: 2,213
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They're everywhere! They're everywhere!""In April, Crystal Moore was fired in what she said was a decision driven by homophobia. Now the town of Latta, South Carolina, has voted to alter the structure of its government and hire her back as police chief, in the process weakening the powers of the mayor who put her on the chopping block." http://news.yahoo.com/southern-town-lesbian-sheriff-003000842--politics.html Well, let's not get carried away, Oli. And I'm not even familiar with the case. But people should be hired based on their ability. Period. Because you know what happens next, right? Quotas for openly gay people. And that opens the door to people lying about their orientation on job applications to increase their chances. Let them live their lives and go about their business. I'm all for that, and I've always supported their rights on this board. But we don't need anymore "victim" groups that benefit from Affirmative Action, especially if they're going to lie about it. And for the record, I've always been in favor of it to a certain degree  . that people being hired because of ability shit is bullshit we had C student as president for 8 years....Cs = average somebody of average intelligence shouldn't lead your country the proof is in how bad bush fucked up
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Re: Crime & Justice
[Re: cookcounty]
#789154
07/14/14 03:02 PM
07/14/14 03:02 PM
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Joined: Jun 2014
Posts: 64 Miami, Fla via Englewood Cliff...
Longshoreman
Button
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Button
Joined: Jun 2014
Posts: 64
Miami, Fla via Englewood Cliff...
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They're everywhere! They're everywhere!""In April, Crystal Moore was fired in what she said was a decision driven by homophobia. Now the town of Latta, South Carolina, has voted to alter the structure of its government and hire her back as police chief, in the process weakening the powers of the mayor who put her on the chopping block." http://news.yahoo.com/southern-town-lesbian-sheriff-003000842--politics.html Well, let's not get carried away, Oli. And I'm not even familiar with the case. But people should be hired based on their ability. Period. Because you know what happens next, right? Quotas for openly gay people. And that opens the door to people lying about their orientation on job applications to increase their chances. Let them live their lives and go about their business. I'm all for that, and I've always supported their rights on this board. But we don't need anymore "victim" groups that benefit from Affirmative Action, especially if they're going to lie about it. And for the record, I've always been in favor of it to a certain degree  . that people being hired because of ability shit is bullshit we had C student as president for 8 years....Cs = average somebody of average intelligence shouldn't lead your country the proof is in how bad bush fucked up Jimmy Carter was probably the most "intelligent" President we've ever had, however was probably the worst ever also. Lots in play when grading or judging a good president, however your Bush bashing is so old and tired I'm starting to like a guy I had great disdain for.
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Re: Crime & Justice
[Re: cookcounty]
#789155
07/14/14 03:10 PM
07/14/14 03:10 PM
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Joined: Dec 2006
Posts: 23,296 Throggs Neck
pizzaboy
The Fuckin Doctor
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The Fuckin Doctor

Joined: Dec 2006
Posts: 23,296
Throggs Neck
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They're everywhere! They're everywhere!""In April, Crystal Moore was fired in what she said was a decision driven by homophobia. Now the town of Latta, South Carolina, has voted to alter the structure of its government and hire her back as police chief, in the process weakening the powers of the mayor who put her on the chopping block." http://news.yahoo.com/southern-town-lesbian-sheriff-003000842--politics.html Well, let's not get carried away, Oli. And I'm not even familiar with the case. But people should be hired based on their ability. Period. Because you know what happens next, right? Quotas for openly gay people. And that opens the door to people lying about their orientation on job applications to increase their chances. Let them live their lives and go about their business. I'm all for that, and I've always supported their rights on this board. But we don't need anymore "victim" groups that benefit from Affirmative Action, especially if they're going to lie about it. And for the record, I've always been in favor of it to a certain degree  . that people being hired because of ability shit is bullshit we had C student as president for 8 years....Cs = average somebody of average intelligence shouldn't lead your country the proof is in how bad bush fucked up I didn't even like Bush, and I posted as much constantly. But the man went to Yale, Cook. Where'd you ever go except to pick up gumment cheese with your drug addled Mother? 
"I got news for you. If it wasn't for the toilet, there would be no books." --- George Costanza.
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Re: Crime & Justice
[Re: Longshoreman]
#789180
07/14/14 07:11 PM
07/14/14 07:11 PM
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Joined: Feb 2003
Posts: 15,030 Texas
olivant
OP
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OP

Joined: Feb 2003
Posts: 15,030
Texas
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What's your stance and/ or position on the S.C. issue Oli? We've wasted and we continue to wast alot of national resources on personal intimate relations (this is what the mayor of Latta, South Carolina was recorded as saying: "I'd much rather have somebody who drank and drank too much taking care of my child than I had somebody whose lifestyle is questionable around children, because that ain't the damn way it's supposed to be." Remind you of any Board member's posts?). We have bigger fish to fry than if Mike is intimate with Frank or Phyllis is intimate with Heather. The people of Latta, South Carolina apparently recognized that and took remedial action using the available democratic tools supplied by our Republic form of government.
Last edited by olivant; 07/14/14 07:17 PM.
"Generosity. That was my first mistake." "Experience must be our only guide; reason may mislead us." "Instagram is Twitter for people who can't read."
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Re: Crime & Justice
[Re: IvyLeague]
#790189
07/18/14 06:42 PM
07/18/14 06:42 PM
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Joined: Apr 2006
Posts: 11,797 Pennsylvania
klydon1
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Joined: Apr 2006
Posts: 11,797
Pennsylvania
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SACRAMENTO Calif. (Reuters) - California's system for imposing and carrying out the death penalty is so long and drawn-out that it amounts to cruel and unusual punishment and thus is unconstitutional, a federal judge ruled on Wednesday.I agree. It is too long and drawn out. But that's just an argument to shorten it considerably. Do away with 20 years of appeals which do nothing but make defense lawyers rich. Sorry to disappoint you, but the truth is that defense attorneys can make more money by turning down death penalty appeals, which are most often done by court appointment at a rate that is pennies on the dollar. The fees also frequently are capped. Moreover, those with venomous disdain for the legal profession for accepting the constitutional mandate to provide a vigorous defense for everyone charged with a crime is ignorant of the fact that those, who most appreciate the role of defense counsel in life-sentence and death penalty appeals, are prosecutors, court administrators and judges. Without defense counsel to filter and provide order to grievances and petitions by producing pleadings addressing real issues, you would see real chaos. Much of the long term litigation on death appeals is brought by non-profit defender associations, who have a record of overturning convictions for innocent people serving life sentences.
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Re: Crime & Justice
[Re: olivant]
#790201
07/18/14 07:22 PM
07/18/14 07:22 PM
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Joined: Mar 2014
Posts: 384
ItalianForever
Capo
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Capo
Joined: Mar 2014
Posts: 384
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little known fact, around 95% of federal criminal defense is court appointed. So this negative perception about the rich sleazy defense attorney is completely false created by the rare exception cases like when a mafia guy gets indicted. The media once again creating false perceptions.
The federal government is literally subsidizing criminal defense work in this country along with everything else. And here is the point to remember, the attorneys appointed are often private practice lawyers on a panel and not just public defenders.
Last edited by ItalianForever; 07/18/14 07:23 PM.
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