I know someone who john gotti was very wary of , joe billotti . Apparently after the murders of billotti and castellano he thought he was gonna have a problem with joe so sent gravano to feel him out . Apparently joe billotti was a tough son of a bitch

What happened to Joe Bilotti was he inactive after Tommy got hit? Still alive?

Those were the exact words that Bruce Mouw said when Gigante died...He said they heard Gotti bad mouth everyone, all except Gigante...He said he was the one guy he feared !!

I never knew Tommy Bilotti had a brother that was in the life. thats pretty interesting actually.

finaly got in here.

anybody seeing my post?

We see your post,Binnie Coll

No he was still very much active , he was placed in gravanos crew , if he is still alive and active I presume he is still in the vallario crew . I don't suppose he had much choice , according to gravano he had 9 kids and so did tommy, so wen tmy was killed joe was pretty much responsible for 18 kids

What is this thing called "the fist",supposed to be a genovese hit team in the late 70s and early 80s..?I read that tino the greek and michael cigars coppola were part of it.

Gigante obviously could not have been too much of a "stickler for the rules," considering that he tried to knock-off (and ultimately forced into retirement) Costello three decades earlier. Which is to say, the "precedent" was set by Gigante and Genovese, except that this was preceded by Anastasia bumping-off the Mangano brothers, which was preceded by Luciano eliminating Masseria and Maranzano, and so on ad infinitum

Supposedly Gotti feared Paul Castellano as well. Bruce Mouw commented on how Gotti would become all concerned and nervous whenever Paul summoned Gotti for no apparent reason: 'Gotti would be shaking like a leaf' in Mouw's words. Of course, among his inner circle, Gotti would badmouth 'the Pope' and ridicule him and talk trash about him, but that all changed when he had to go visit Paul at the White House. And I'm sure Gotti's fear of Paul played a large role in Gotti's desire to knock him off.

Indeed, I would say that in the mob, people who belong to the same generation of actors often become allies even across different families. And their most dangerous enemies are typically from the next generation within their own family. Castellano and Gigante were of the same generation, the status quo successors of Gambino and Genovese. Costello's closet ally was to be found not among the other members of the Luciano family (post-1945), but in the person of Albert Anastasia (Mangano family). Gotti was the upstart vis-a-vis Gigante much as Genovese was the upstart vis-a-vis Costello . . . . The real question is how did Gambino and the heirs of Genovese succeed in so thoroughly "legitimizing" their rule, such that Gotti's rub-out of Castellano appeared to be a heinous departure from the "rules"?

concerning castellano,i have a hard time believing he didn't whack gotti and his brother gene, he knew that their was heroin dealing in his family, he had always banned it. when paul wanted to hear the tapes of the conversations between quack quack and others, gotti had to whack him. it was him or paul. nonetheless castellano should have been paying more attention on what was going on in his family. he really just got beat to the punch!

It's ironic that John Gotti was celebrated for being this fearless rugged modern day Al Capone when in reality he was often shaking in his boots and not ashamed of it.

He expressed fears about the Demeo crew. He expressed fears about always being called by Paul Castellano to meet him at his mansion. He was afraid of many things and unabashedly so. He also was afraid to fly airplanes. No shame in his game. Someone like him, I think he most likely feared The Chin after Decicco got blown up. Put it like this. Gotti probably didn't know who exactly was responsible, and was then probably afraid of everyone. I remember reading somewhere that Nino Gaggi "summoned" Gotti to a meeting and Gotti got upset about it. Gotti had to know that Nino was acting like a Boss and had to have allies in the Gambino family and on the commission to do so. Decicco got blown up in 86. Gaggi summoned Gotti to a meeting probably in 87 or 88. So Gotti knew something was up and things were afoot.

Gaggi went to jail in March 86 and died their 2 years later. He was on trial when Gotti took over so Nino had bigger concerns.

I'm sure a lot of those guys were scared of one another....That just goes with the territory when your world is surrounded by a bunch of killers and criminals....Anybody would be scared if you were living that life where any second could be your Last.

Then he must have summoned Gotti in 86 around the time of the Decicco hit. What is my source? The book, Murder Machine.

The book says that right before Nino was jailed in 86, he summoned Gotti to a meeting. The way it was done was very undeferential and condescending. Nino sent an emissary to "bring" Gotti to Nino about an unspecified issue concerning a restaurant. So there you have a Capo sending someone to "bring" a boss to a meeting that the boss doesn't even know the back story to. It was probably going to be a hit, since Gotti would have possibly attended the meeting alone and would not know who would be waiting for him. But it was probably more a signal than anything else. It was a signal to Gotti and the rest of the Gambinos that Gotti did not have Commission backing and that Nino did. The only question for Gotti was who exactly on the commission was backing Nino.

Great post.

Welcome to the board. Very apt perspective regards the history of bosses being overthrown to the new 'norm' of that becoming the ultimate faux-par.

I'd be interested in thoughts on this.

Personally I can only attribute it to time. As Hesh Rabkin (Sopranos) said of Junior 'he can do what he wants, he's the boss, we all dance to his tune. That's the way it's always been.'

As one's primary motivation is self preservation, the transition from a continuous tumultuous family leadership to a stable one is understandable, when the stability of the times is taken into account.

Added to which Gambino, Luchesse and Bonanno were all at the TOP of their game. Gangsters amongst gangsters.

Throw in this was the mob's hey day in power, and hence money, rocking the boat, or a call for change, in that environment, and against those opponents, you see how the game played out the way it did.

So the players, the times, the power/money, the motivation and a little bit of luck were the cornerstones of the 'change' in policy.

But who the fuck knows really.

right before big paul got killed according to Sammy the bull he was gonna have nino killed for all the heat he was bringing on the family. in the book gotti tapes Sammy explains to john he told nino after the trials paul was ginna clip him and told nino they did him a favor gotti didn't invite him to the meeting capo meeting were they elected gotti new boss think nino was going to trial during the time. iread that nino tried to summon gotti at this time but gotti was like wtf im the boss, never read they had problems with each other nino shot a cop I think gotti respected that and demeo helped gotti with hits I think so he had to ask nino permission.

I think Chin feared others copying what Gotti did as it was a threat to all established bosses like himself. But him not going at Gotti "head on" was just the smarter move. Mob families don't declare war like countries do. And Gotti obviously wasn't itching for a war either, considering he didn't retaliate after he had verification about Genovese plots against him.



It seems many bosses (and mafiosi in general) are in favor of the rules as long as it benefits them. Once that changes, the rules go out the window pretty fast.

What I am suspecting here, as I am sure Nino did, is that Sammy was trying to psyop him into believing that his number one ally (Big Paul) was in fact his enemy. Nino was blood relation to Big Paul, a Boss who was losing control and badly needed allies. I find it hard to believe Paul would whack Nino, though with these people....anything's possible.


Now if Nino went so far as to summon Gotti, I very much doubt he was kicking up. It's not a good look to put on a tough show right after you kicked up 50% of your profits as tribute. So good relations is something I doubt Nino and Gotti had. More likely is that Nino was a lone wolf Capo with strong Sicilian backing and connections that the Neopolitan John Gotti was wary about disturbing. Maybe we never heard about a beef because Gotti himself was the one who kept it quiet instead of rocking the boat and complaining about back payments of missing tribute? Instead of calling Nino out and having his impotence against the Sicilian faction exposed, he ignored it and kept pretending to be omnipotent.

interesting, nino was blood related to paul? how, be a great factoid..

gotti had to know who was killing his guys.. decicco, lino boriello, caso flips tells the whole story who is killing his guys still does nothing..they were afraid to do anything..my opinion

Gotti had his suspicions but couldn't prove it , wen casso flipped gotti had already been in jail doing life without parole for a year

I know Nino was related to the old boss Scalise. I think he had no relation to Castellano actually.

my take also alfa

he still was the boss, they killed his closest guys..thats war..they were going after jr, still nothing..the tapes from manna when he was in the street..he knew who was behind this..people say how tough and smart he was.. he made all the wrong moves, and then never honored them for giving their lives up..he was not willing to go against chin.. my opinion

I read an old article by Capeci from -89 and it reminded me of this thread. It says that months after the feds warned Gotti, they also went and warned Chin, his two brothers (yes the priest too) and Baldy Dom that the Gambinos were going to assassinate them.

http://articles.philly.com/1989-02-27/news/26153845_1_john-gotti-louis-gigante-genovese-crime

Did this turn out to be untrue? It's interesting if Gotti actually had a plan to kill Chin, but killing the legitimate brother sounds odd...

TG I agree with what you said about each exactly

Neither were scared but both knew the other could have killed them with the power their families had at the time

I still love how much control WS had on fish market ,that racket doesn't get a lot of attention but huge $ was being made , WS had total and I man total control of that market , more so than any LE . Wish their was more on that racket , always wonder if stuff is still going on as those guys owned a lot of those wholesale fish co.s, I know probably today a background check is ridiculous but I wouldnt be shocked if some envelopes still make it out , just a lot more legitimate today , but who knows , I know I dont

Gotti was afraid of a good amount of gangsters. Obviously demeo he wouldnt go near even when paul asked him to take him out. Casso was another guy that gotti made peace with mostly because casso was taking about gambino members who tried to kill him. Even big paul at the height of his power. One incident was paul ordered him to a sitdown and gotti nervously said what did i do now