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Re: Am I the one who likes all the Rocky films?
[Re: Binnie_Coll]
#806981
10/08/14 09:55 AM
10/08/14 09:55 AM
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Joined: Jun 2012
Posts: 2,809 Scotland
Camarel
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Posts: 2,809
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joey cusak, if you notice in the first rocky movie, rocky has a picture of rocky Marciano on his wall, Marciano just happens to be the greatest heavyweight champion in history. never lost a fight. check out his fights on u tube. the greatest puncher in history. not being racist, just telling it like it is. No way was Marciano the greatest ever Heavyweight, i'd personally rate him 8th or 9th; and i honestly can't see that convincing of an argument for him being rated above 5th or 4th at most. Marciano fought in the weakest HW division in history. His most impressive victories were his two over Ezzard Charles who was a former Middle and Light Heavyweight, and most Boxing Historians agree that Charles had stopped fighting so agressively since he killed Sam Baroudi. Other than that he beat a washed up 37 year old Joe Louis in his last fight. Two wins over Jersey Joe Walcott, who had lost 7 of his previous 17 fights, and against Archie Moore who was a natural Middle/Light Heavyweight. I also don't agree with Marciano being undefeated, as i belive he should have lost his split decision victory in the first Roland La Starza fight.
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Re: Am I the one who likes all the Rocky films?
[Re: olivant]
#807001
10/08/14 11:08 AM
10/08/14 11:08 AM
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Joined: Jun 2012
Posts: 2,809 Scotland
Camarel
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I too don't believe Rocky was the greatest heavyweight champion ever. However, he is one of the greatest. He fought at primarily a light heavyweight weight of about 185 lbs. His knockout percentage is the highest ever and some of his opponents had very good records. In fact, some of his opponents were ahead on score cards until Rocky knocked them out. Also, Rocky scored the only knockdown in the 1st LaStarza fight. Keep in mind that Rocky had one of the most powerful punches ever and that he fought (as an example) 8 fights between 1949 and 1951, two of which took place just 3 weeks apart. It was a different era when there was a strong element of humility, appreciation, and overall decency present in sports figures and he is remembered for those characteristics as much as his boxing prowess. Actually Vitali Klitschko has the highest KO % of any HW champion, his 41 Knockouts in 45 wins is 91 % compared to Rockys 88% from 43 Knockouts in 49 fights. Just nitpicking it doesn't really mean much either way. I'd rate these Heavyweights above Marciano. In no particular order: Muhammad Ali Joe Louis Larry Holmes Sonny Liston George Foreman Lennox Lewis Wladimir Klitschko Evander Holyfield I can also see a good argument for another two or three fighters.
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Re: Am I the one who likes all the Rocky films?
[Re: Joey_Cusack]
#807025
10/08/14 12:04 PM
10/08/14 12:04 PM
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Joined: Aug 2014
Posts: 3,021 far, northwest
Binnie_Coll
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camarel, we no doubt have a difference of opinion. as to the first lastarza fight. rockys fight before him was with carmine vingo whom rocky almost killed, he never fought again, and wound up an invalid. it affected him greatly in the first fight with roland. the second fight he destroyed him. ezzard Charles did kill a man in the ring you are correct, however he was and remains vastly underated, in their second fight Charles cut rockys nose off. rocky came back to his corner in the 8th round and his corner {trainer charley goldman } and was told " there going to stop it rock you gotta knock him out" he went out and koed Charles. if you have any doubt of his great punching power please view on u tube the first Walcott fight. 13th round.
" watch what you say around this guy, he's got a big mouth" sam giancana to an outfit soldier about frank Sinatra. [ from the book "my way"
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Re: Am I the one who likes all the Rocky films?
[Re: olivant]
#807027
10/08/14 12:07 PM
10/08/14 12:07 PM
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Joined: Aug 2014
Posts: 3,021 far, northwest
Binnie_Coll
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Underboss
Joined: Aug 2014
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far, northwest
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I too don't believe Rocky was the greatest heavyweight champion ever. However, he is one of the greatest. He fought at primarily a light heavyweight weight of about 185 lbs. His knockout percentage is the highest ever and some of his opponents had very good records. In fact, some of his opponents were ahead on score cards until Rocky knocked them out. Also, Rocky scored the only knockdown in the 1st LaStarza fight. Keep in mind that Rocky had one of the most powerful punches ever and that he fought (as an example) 8 fights between 1949 and 1951, two of which took place just 3 weeks apart. It was a different era when there was a strong element of humility, appreciation, and overall decency present in sports figures and he is remembered for those characteristics as much as his boxing prowess. great post. great read.
" watch what you say around this guy, he's got a big mouth" sam giancana to an outfit soldier about frank Sinatra. [ from the book "my way"
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Re: Am I the one who likes all the Rocky films?
[Re: Camarel]
#807075
10/08/14 02:20 PM
10/08/14 02:20 PM
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Joined: Dec 2006
Posts: 23,296 Throggs Neck
pizzaboy
The Fuckin Doctor
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The Fuckin Doctor

Joined: Dec 2006
Posts: 23,296
Throggs Neck
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No doubt Marciano is among the hardest ever punchers, i've seen a bunch of his fights including the Walcott one you mentioned. Still wouldn't rate him among the top 5 Heavyweights. It's really for another thread, and it's a debate that ALWAYS turns ugly here. But here goes: Now I'm a proud Italian American, and I personally think that Marciano would have beaten anyone his own size. But the litany of giant heavyweights who came after him would have been too much for him to handle. He couldn't have stood up to a young George Foreman. There's no shame in saying that he was the toughest guy his size. None at all. But that's not good enough for some people, and that's why it's a topic that usually turns ugly around here. I think it would have been similar to Foreman-Frazier. Rocky had a similar style to Frazier. And I hate to say it, but I think the result would have been the same. Now, back to the fictional Rocky . . .
"I got news for you. If it wasn't for the toilet, there would be no books." --- George Costanza.
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Re: Am I the one who likes all the Rocky films?
[Re: Joey_Cusack]
#807082
10/08/14 02:36 PM
10/08/14 02:36 PM
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Joined: Jun 2012
Posts: 2,809 Scotland
Camarel
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Fair enough, not much point in continuing this as neither of us will change our minds. Thought you'd be interested in this, Ring Magazine rated Marciano 14th on their greatest punchers list. Here's the top 20 and the link: 1. Joe Louis 2. Sam Langford 3. Jimmy Wilde 4. Archie Moore 5. Sandy Saddler 6. Stanley Ketchell 7. Jack Dempsey 8. Bob Fitzsimmons 9. George Foreman 10. Earnie Shavers 11. Sugar Ray Robinson 12. Ruben Olivares 13. Wilfredo Gomez 14. Rocky Marciano 15. Sonny Liston 16. Mike Tyson 17. Bob Foster 18. Thomas Hearns 19. Khaosai Galaxy 20. Alexis Arguello http://boxing.about.com/od/history/a/ring_punchers.htm
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