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Re: does pete rose belong in the hall of fame.
[Re: Binnie_Coll]
#814528
11/20/14 01:01 PM
11/20/14 01:01 PM
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Joined: Aug 2014
Posts: 3,021 far, northwest
Binnie_Coll
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well, to be perfectly honest, pete rose never used steroids, everything he did he did with natural ability.
those who were juiced and set records did far worse than rose, when I started this thread I didn't think he belonged in the hall, but, in view of what others have done, Clemens lying to congress, bonds juicing for years, mcquire, sosa, more than i can mention.
I now think juicers have shamed baseball far more than rose,I say let rose in on the strength of his achievments, but don't let arod in.
" watch what you say around this guy, he's got a big mouth" sam giancana to an outfit soldier about frank Sinatra. [ from the book "my way"
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Re: does pete rose belong in the hall of fame.
[Re: oldschool3]
#814562
11/20/14 06:44 PM
11/20/14 06:44 PM
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Joined: Dec 2006
Posts: 23,296 Throggs Neck
pizzaboy
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The Fuckin Doctor

Joined: Dec 2006
Posts: 23,296
Throggs Neck
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Pete "may" have used steroids, but we know that Bonds and others did...why is there a double standard? Because everyone has a selective memory when it comes to their favorites. If Bonds wasn't such a colossal douchebag as a human being, people would be more likely to look the other way. Same goes for A-Roid. But as much as I loathe Bonds, I'll say this for him: He's still a God in San Francisco. A-Roid is hated everywhere he goes.
"I got news for you. If it wasn't for the toilet, there would be no books." --- George Costanza.
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Re: does pete rose belong in the hall of fame.
[Re: Binnie_Coll]
#814590
11/21/14 04:46 AM
11/21/14 04:46 AM
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Joined: Jun 2012
Posts: 2,809 Scotland
Camarel
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Bonds was 1000 times the player A-Roid is. Bonds was already a 1st ballot Hall of Famer when he first started juicing in 1998. As i said earlier his Single Season and All Time HR Records should be wiped, as well as his Single Season Slugging % record but other than that he's a member of the Hall of Fame on merit. McGwire and Sosa are the epitome of the Steroid Generation, decent ball players that used steroids to become superstars. Neither should ever be in the HOF, McGwire in particular who claimed that he took Steroids practically all his career for health purposes  . There's no reason at all to ban Rose from the HOF, first it was he could have been betting against his team, and apparently it's now he may have been juicing  . No proof to be seen of course, and if anyone seriously believes that there's no Juicers or Managers that manipulated their teams results for profits in the HOF, then i have a bridge for sale. What about Gaylord Perry in the HOF? A guy who by his own admission cheated for most of his career, for whatever reason Perry admitting that he cheated is not the same as Rose possibly cheating  . Gaylord Perry threw the spitball, an illegal pitch that was outlawed in 1920.
It was common knowledge that Perry used the spitball, which he learned from Bob Shaw in 1964 when they were teammates with the San Francisco Giants.
There were many attempts to catch Perry in the act of "loading up." Most caused great controversy, but none ever resulted in positive proof.
Perry relished the attempts to catch him using the illegal pitch since he believed that batters who thought he was throwing the pitch would be adversely affected.
During the 1971 playoffs between the Giants and the Pittsburgh Pirates, a television reporter asked Perry's five-year-old daughter Allison if her father threw the greaseball.
"It's a hard slider," she responded.
Last edited by Camarel; 11/21/14 04:46 AM.
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Re: does pete rose belong in the hall of fame.
[Re: oldschool3]
#814689
11/21/14 05:17 PM
11/21/14 05:17 PM
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Joined: Jun 2012
Posts: 2,809 Scotland
Camarel
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Scotland
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how can you justify Bonds in the HOF but not Sosa or McGwire?...you either juiced or you didn't....and by judging from the size of Bonds' melon alone...he was a big juice junkie I see what you're saying, but as i said earlier it's not exactly clear who did and didn't juice. Without a doubt there are current and future members of the HOF who used steroids. Going back to my earlier example of Gaylord Perry, why is he a member of the HOF? He readily admitted cheating his entire career, going as far as naming his autobiography after it. It's also not as if it was a minor flaw in the rules he exploited or a recent addition, it directly improved his pitches just like PEDS's would someones batting,baserunning,pitching,etc, and the rule was introduced 40+ years before he debuted. Again from everything i've read Bonds started juicing around 1998, if you have anything that contradicts this then i'd genuinely be interested in seeing it. Now going on the assumption that this is the case, using his full Pirates career and his first 5 with the Giants while factoring in a natural decline, Bonds was HOF already. He was consistently hitting 30+ HR's and stealing 30+ bases with a decent Batting Average and an excellent Slugging %. I honestly don't care if he makes the HOF (he wont) or not, but to say he isn't deserving is incredibly narrowminded imo. As PB said he's not a very nice person, but what he did in his career pre-juice is without a doubt HOF material. Regarding Sosa and McGwire, i suppose an argument could be made for Sosa. In no way does McGwire deserve it though, the guy admitted he took PED'S for the majority of his career, meaning we pratically never saw him at his unaided capacity. Again Bonds proved himself without PED'S, while McGwire is pretty much the reason why this era is so seedy. Outside of power hitting McGwire did nothing at all, which i think shows how much he needed PED's, even with them he could only hit Homeruns. Now i know that what i said above, is pretty contridictary but it's pretty much the way i see things.
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Re: does pete rose belong in the hall of fame.
[Re: Binnie_Coll]
#815099
11/24/14 12:27 PM
11/24/14 12:27 PM
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Joined: Mar 2006
Posts: 1,473 No. Virginia
mustachepete
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No. Virginia
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The official ballot is out for next year's Hall of Fame class: http://m.mlb.com/news/article/102250514/...-of-fame-ballotIt should be easy for people to come up with the maximum ten names. These guys I think everyone should be voting for: Johnson Martinez Smoltz L. Smith Biggio Piazza Bagwell Schilling The last two votes I'd probably give to Tim Raines because he still has a shot and is running out of time, and Larry Walker because he was just way too good to be in danger of falling off the ballot.
"All of these men were good listeners; patient men."
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Re: does pete rose belong in the hall of fame.
[Re: BAM_233]
#817787
12/08/14 03:20 PM
12/08/14 03:20 PM
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Joined: Aug 2014
Posts: 3,021 far, northwest
Binnie_Coll
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I still can't understand how so many great players are still left out of the Hall. it started out as a great thing, but now it's almost ridiculous, biil james wrote a book called "the hall of fame" he mentions in his book how tinker, evers, and chance got in the hall of fame because of a poem, none were ever great in their playing days. he goes on to mention many that are in, don't belong in, and many that belong in are left out. it' a great book about the hall of fame.
" watch what you say around this guy, he's got a big mouth" sam giancana to an outfit soldier about frank Sinatra. [ from the book "my way"
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Re: does pete rose belong in the hall of fame.
[Re: Binnie_Coll]
#817886
12/08/14 09:43 PM
12/08/14 09:43 PM
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Joined: Mar 2006
Posts: 1,473 No. Virginia
mustachepete
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No. Virginia
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what about gil hodges? is he in yet? Hodges was on this ballot, but didn't do well.
"All of these men were good listeners; patient men."
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Re: does pete rose belong in the hall of fame.
[Re: Binnie_Coll]
#820569
12/23/14 11:43 PM
12/23/14 11:43 PM
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Joined: Jul 2003
Posts: 1,517 Cincinnati
DannyMontana
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no, he gambled on games when he was manager of the cincinatti reds, which means he could and most likely did influence the result of games. in spite of his glorious records,
his character is seriously flawed.
There were many posts I could have quoted, but I just chose this since it was the first one. Many people claimed that he "influenced games" and "threw games" because of his gambling. BUT that is completely untrue. He bet on the Reds to win EVERY time he bet. He never bet against them. That is fact, read up on it. If anything, that would only make him manage better and want to win more. His focus would have been on his team winning only. Who cares if he bet on his team to win? Put him in the Hall of Fame.
George Washington was in a cult, and the cult was into aliens, man.
-Slater "Dazed and Confused"
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